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 Post subject: Suggestions
PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 4:50 pm 
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Some things were changed for the commercial benefit of running MOUL on the GameTap service. Cyan's intentions here really matter, so a roadmap is important to determine what is realistic to suggest. Chogon says they want to get it back into the condition it was in at the end of the GamTap run. But my prime example of what was done for GameTap that diverged from the original game design for Uru Live was putting the player immediately onto Relto. I really doubt Cyan will have or want to take the time to recode that again. But if this official shard is going to be run by Cyan for their fans, I think we should at least make an effort to convince them to put the game back to how it was designed - Cleft first. And make it public. Then again, if the intent is truly to go open source, Cyan really should just get it going with minimal effort and time and let the community give the code a try once an offical shard is up and running and there is a home base from which to launch their open source project.

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Last edited by JWPlatt on Sun Jan 10, 2010 5:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 5:25 pm 
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Indeed, here's hoping for a sans episodic format Uru.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:06 pm 
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My only suggestion right now is to wait and see what the rest of the info is that Chogon said was to come.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 2:11 am 
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I agree from a story POV, that starting in the Cleft is ideal. It nicely sets up everything and explains why there is a Relto in the first place. I wonder if it would be good to "enforce" the order of ages available, so that one must do the 4 base ages before one even gets to a place where one can get to the city, and then so forth with incrementally increasing access to the ages/links. Random thoughts here, of course, but getting the neighborhood book immediately seems somehow strange.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 9:08 am 
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gimlet wrote:
I agree from a story POV, that starting in the Cleft is ideal. It nicely sets up everything and explains why there is a Relto in the first place. I wonder if it would be good to "enforce" the order of ages available, so that one must do the 4 base ages before one even gets to a place where one can get to the city, and then so forth with incrementally increasing access to the ages/links. Random thoughts here, of course, but getting the neighborhood book immediately seems somehow strange.


I played CC offline in mixed order. It was a bit confusing. But I think in a multiplayer online game it is necessary to connect with other explorers as soon as possible. Hence the suggestion to make the Cleft public. And maybe the City even before you get your Relto...

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 1:17 pm 
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I think the Cleft has not been converted to multiplayer, so the walk meshes and the other stuff will not yet work for that, just a guess. but a fun idea, would be lots of fun to see other explorers in there, but as others say, we will see what they start us with for testing....

I would guess we would have to do the original ages again, it would be nice to see us have to work for things like in the first concept of URU..and develop our awareness of the story that way.

I would hope possibly that we will have longer in there....or some way to light the Bahro cave with the Yeesha journey pics, they really give an important part of the story.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 1:52 pm 
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I was very much against starting at Relto, I mean it made sense for those old explorers who already had their Relto's but the Cleft made more sense as you'll being called out to somewhere unknown to start an unknown journey.

Starting at the City wouldn't work unless you had a mechanism in place for it, but you'd have to go to another Age first as you can't link from the surface to D'ni unless we have more overused Yeesha magic to fix it.

(still thinks a multiplayer cleft would be the best idea).

Cleft wasn't designed for multiplayer but it can work as it, few have imported it in Alcugs/UU shards in the past, you don't need to treat the meshes any different from single player (Whil's Bimevi was made from single player but works well in multiplayer apparently) it's the puzzle rigging and NPC interactions that would need reworking.


Last edited by Tweek on Mon Jan 11, 2010 1:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 3:12 pm 
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I agree - Please, Cleft first! I still vividly remember my first few minutes in Uru, running across the desert toward the volcano as that cool new music started, and chatting with Zandi. Simply put, that's how it should be.

I'm sure a few of us remember the buildup before Uru even started, with the mysterious Zandi postings, Preafter, the e-mails from Zandi, and so forth. It may be impossible to bring that aspect back, but the original concept was to start us at the Cleft, and I feel that that's still the only fitting way to begin. And besides, with Yeesha explaining the purpose of Relto, and personally (or at least holographically) giving us our Relto books, it all comes together nicely, as it was meant to.

And while this may not be possible under the circumstances, I also agree that a multiplayer Cleft would be more accurate story-wise. In the original concept, many of us were called... and meeting other new explorers at the Cleft would be expected. I'm not sure how the gameplay would work, though... the Journeys, the Yeesha monologues, the Relto books, etc. For example, if somebody else tagged all the Journey Cloths and opened the tree, would that open it for everybody?

Oh well, better not to expect miracles before the beta even starts! :)

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Last edited by Mowog on Mon Jan 11, 2010 3:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 3:25 pm 
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Tweek wrote:
it's the puzzle rigging and NPC interactions that would need reworking.

Yes, that's the challenge. How do you let new players meet in a public Cleft and still let them solve it themselves. How would it work if it were real life? Someone made a comment about MQO being a single-player game for multiplayer use. That was because of things like the TW bridges being valid only from the POV of the individual player. You folks came to accept the TW bridges. But I don't think your average Uru fan (or Cyan for that matter) will appreciate anything less than total realism. I'll have to go back and read some threads from Tweek and Alahmnat to see what they did with it, or even if their solutions were multiplayer.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 3:35 pm 
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it is a remarkable start in the Cleft i agree..and very clever way to bring individual players into a multiplayer environment

there coudl be a multi Cleft as well as individual instances...and that would work with the current set up i think.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 3:41 pm 
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Just a wild idea: A multiplayer Cleft only on surface; as soon as you go down the ladder you are in an instanced Cleft by yourself.
You get to hunt for the clothes on the surface and talk to Zandi in company and when you... Oh wait, you have to come up again to start the windmill...

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 4:16 pm 
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CrisGer wrote:
I think the Cleft has not been converted to multiplayer

I can't remember the specifics but I do believe that we made the Cleft multiplayer safe when the game was changed to start in the Relto because you could go to your neighborhood and bring someone back to help you in the Cleft.

Ok, here was the non-story design considerations, as far as I remember them.
In the original UruLive, we wanted to have different levels of safety (as in being safe from being griefed or harrassed by others). From the Cleft, which was completely safe, to the neighborhood which was semi-safe (could be just selected friends) to completely unsafe in the city. The original intent of the Cleft was two-fold. Introduce you to the story and second was to have a safe place where you can learn the mechanics of the game.

When we restarted UruLive with Turner/GameTap, there were a number of focus group studies done. And the two biggest complaints (especially from people that were not familiar with Myst/Uru) that was discovered was 1) "Hey! If this is an MMOG! Where are all the people?" and 2) there was a large percentage of people who got "Lost in the desert" (as I had put it in the KI ;-) ), get frustrated and quit right there. Because of the GameTap environment that MOUL was now entering, we had to get new players "into" the game faster and meet other people. Hence, starting in your Relto and as a new player your neighborhood book took you to the Guild of Greeters Neighborhood.

So, IMHO (in other words, not speaking as a Cyan employee), this is what I would do with MOULagain. New players start in the Cleft. It just makes more story sense. However, I would remove the safety restriction and make the Cleft a single instance, like the city. So, everybody that starts a new game goes to the same Cleft and the GoG could hang out there. Make completely solving the Cleft optional. Put the Relto book somewhere convenient and leave the Yeesha page inside the tree to unlock the other four pillars in your Relto.
But again, this is just the world according to Chogon and of course, it is doubtful we'll have much time to make many changes.


Thanks,
Chogon


Last edited by Chogon on Mon Jan 11, 2010 4:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 4:24 pm 
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wow, very cool info Chogon, thanks for sharing that.

a lot to think about.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 5:07 pm 
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*me imagines Tweek sputtering into his coffee as he reads that Chogon's ideas are inline with his own*

That would be fantastic if we could make that happen someday. Add to that the ability to descend into the volcano and make your way to a neighborhood, and it would be nirvana.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 5:11 pm 
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Sounds good to me Chogon! But then I am pretty easy to please whatever is done is good with me! :wink:


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