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PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 5:05 am 
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実は、MOUL内のWatcherに関するジャーナルは読んでいません;;(だってエイゴで書いてあるんだもん;)

ので、日本語版に訳された情報しかないのですが、Watcherは<監視人>と訳されていて、Pubは、バルコニーになっている所から『大樹』を見る場所だったと思います。
ギルドではないと思っています。他のPubと同じ形なので、Pubと呼んでいるのかな~と思っていました。

Ageのメンテナンスについてですが、例えばケモの『しだれ竹』(かってに名づけた・クルクル回転する像のそば)の下(地面)にメンテナマークがあったりしますので、何のメンテかは分かりませんが、業務範囲は広かったと推測されます。

Mystloreは、かなり前から閲覧できませんね;私にとって強い味方なのですが;;


ちなみに、訳す時「.」≒「。」?、「,」≒「、」?   では「;」は日本語でいう、どんな記号ですか?


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 6:50 am 
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You are all doing so well! You are all very dedicated!

Here are answers to your questions. I have tried to type in good English and use simple sentences. If there is something that you do not understand, tell me and I will explain it with happiness. :)

Chiro wrote:
:?: Folder name / Closet / Clothing / "Roman"
What will "Roman" listed here be?

"Roman" is the name of a style of men's hair. Here is an example:

Image

It is named after the style of hair that was popular in the Roman Empire. Translating this has been a challenge for many languages. Perhaps the next time you go to get your hair cut you can ask someone at the hair salon? :)

Kana wrote:
Should we "transliterate" Age names to Japanese character or leave them as it is?

You should decide. You are the Japanese experts! Transliterating the names is acceptable. If you think it is appropriate to do it, then do it. What is normal for Japanese games? What will Japanese players expect? What do you think is best?

Kana wrote:
How the guild names should be translated?

They should be translated to describe what the guilds do.

The Guild of Writers - they write - they write ages.
The Guild of Greeters - they greet - they greet people.
The Guild of Fine Artists - they make works of "Fine Art" (there is no verb for this in English)

We don't know everything about all of the guilds. For example, I don't know what the Guild of Analysts does. Obviously they analyze things, but I don't know what things!

I believe the Guild of Books you have in the list should be "Guild of Bookmakers" (people that make the books in which the Guild of Writers write, using ink made by the Guild of Ink Makers).

If there isn't a perfect word in Japanese, that's OK. Translate to give the correct description. For example, the Guild of Greeters could be the Guild of Welcomers. The Guild of Archivists could be the Guild of Record-Keepers.

However, the Guild of Healers CAN NOT be the Guild of Doctors - at least in English. "Doctors" practice modern medicine only. "Healers" do anything. The difference here, in English, is a perceived difference. It just doesn't mean the same thing. It doesn't have the same feeling. "Guild of Doctors" feels wrong.

How you translate into Japanese is your choice, of course. The lesson is: translations must "feel" correct.

Kana wrote:
I feel that the simpler a term is, the more difficult it is to translate...

This is often true. But even for English the words had to be chosen. Using the word "Age" to describe an entire universe is unusual. However, it works. I don't know why it works...it just does work. The real usage is to say how old something is or to describe a period of time or an era. For example, "The Bronze Age" - the period of time from when humans started using bronze until they discovered iron.

Some words and phrases are unusual but it is explained because the English is a translation from the D'ni language. For example "Great Zero". It sounds silly in English! But, to the D'ni, it has a meaning which describes a central point. The word "KI" (ケイアイ) is used because on the back of the KI is the D'ni symbol for the number three. And, this symbol looks like the English letters K and I. Some people pronounce it like キ. Maybe you could find a nice Japanese word that sounds like キ and means something like "communication", "controller", "talking", "device", etc?

Sometimes, it is OK that you cannot find a perfect word. There probably isn't a perfect word! Do your best to choose a word or phrase that works the best, that can easily be used in conversation, and that, when it is explained, someone understands what that word means and why it was chosen.

Kana wrote:
オレンジ頭少年 is a perfect translation. It's not from Google, I suppose?


I've had Japanese friends since I was young. My friend Emeth and I worked on a correct translation for OrangeHairedBoy many many years ago. Although, now that I look at it, I mistyped it. It should have been オレンジ頭の少年.

What do you think is best? オレンジ頭少年 or オレンジ頭の少年 ?

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 9:56 am 
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Shorah,OHB
Thank you for showing us "Roman".
A style of men's hair !


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 3:47 pm 
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THANK YOU VERY MUCH, OHB!!!!!
We are ready to carry out work engaged in MYST in this way and are really happy.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 4:49 pm 
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>OHB
Nice to meet you and thank you so much for your advice.
It really encourages me to be proactive in working on this translation project.

OHB wrote:
What do you think is best? オレンジ頭少年 or オレンジ頭の少年 ?

オレンジ頭少年 sounds slightly strange to me, but I prefer this.
Because I think that オレンジ頭の少年 is a little more literal.

>Niwaroriさん
Quote:
ちなみに、訳す時「.」≒「。」?、「,」≒「、」?   では「;」は日本語でいう、どんな記号ですか?

区切り記号には違いないのですが、切る強さが違うのだと思います。
ピリオド "." は一番強く、前後で文をぶった切ります。
カンマ "," は一番弱く、ほとんど切れ目はないと見ていいでしょう。
セミコロン ";" はその中間で、意味的に繋がりを持たせたまま区切りを入れる感じです。

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 6:14 pm 
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多謝, OHB!
I just meant to tell you what's going on here,
but am very glad to have your opinion.

All the Age names were transliterated throughout Myst series, including Uru:CC, so people who have played those may think MOUL should be the same.
But some of us worry about that they might not fit to display windows of KI or NEXUS. Maybe we have a chance later to check how all the translations be displayed in MOUL and fix some if needed?

And I also think that since MOUL is an international MMOG, knowing original Age names is convenient when communicating with non-Japanese speakers.
But, just now it came to me that it can’t be difficult to guess… they are only transliterations, so still similar: Krefuto to Cleft, etc.

Anyway I am going to post a poll soon. There's only few of us on discussion, and I want know what other Japanese players think about this issue.


And about Guild names,
OHB wrote:
However, the Guild of Healers CAN NOT be the Guild of Doctors - at least in English. "Doctors" practice modern medicine only. "Healers" do anything. The difference here, in English, is a perceived difference. It just doesn't mean the same thing. It doesn't have the same feeling. "Guild of Doctors" feels wrong.

The difference happens to be similar in Japanese. And we have a good term for healers: 治療師(治療者). It literally means “Heal+er”, and it also is a common translation for a healer(or healers) in RPGs.
I wish all other guild names had correspondent Japanese like this, but unfortunately they don’t :(
We need to know more about their works to find a "suitable" Japanese name.
We will go on discussing, researching(googling) and yes, we should start asking questions on other forums, too.

OHB wrote:
What do you think is best? オレンジ頭少年 or オレンジ頭の少年 ?

I like オレンジ頭少年 better, though オレンジ頭の少年 is a grammatically correct one.
I wanna know what others say to it.
Do you write OrangeHairedBoy without spaces between words? If so, オレンジ頭少年 may show the same uniqueness and be a better translation for that reason.

みなさん
OrangeHairedBoy(OHB)の和訳は「オレンジ頭少年」と「オレンジ頭の少年」とどっちが良いと思いますか?
このフォーラムに書き込むとき、昔訳していた「オレンジ頭の少年」の「の」を書き忘れてしまったんだそうです。個人的には「オレンジ頭少年」の方がユーモラスで好きなのでそっちに一票いれましたが、日本語としては確かに「の」が必要なんですよね・・・。名前だから文法とかどうでもよい気もしますが。
英語のとき、単語の間にスペースを書かないのを常としているの(か分かりませんが)なら、「の」を省略しているのが丁度よく対応しているようにも思えたり。
(追記)
長文を書いていたらYoneさん(はじめまして!)と入れ違いになっていました!オレンジ頭少年に2票ですね :)


Last edited by Kana on Sat Jan 29, 2011 6:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 6:36 pm 
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ギルド名、ぐぐったらCaterersまで独自サイトがあってびっくりしました。
「Maintainers」
→警察的な役割がある、という理解で正しいようです
「Caterers」
→Cavern用の食料確保全般が仕事(Er'canaは彼ら用の時代)のようです。
なぜか英和辞典ばかり見ていた(そしてMystLoreだけ待っていた)のでもうちょっとそれぞれ調べたいと思います。
Analystとか、OHBさんのおっしゃるように職務内容のはっきりわからないギルドもあるようですが・・・。

>Niwaroriさん

,<;<:<. の順で区切りが大きくなり、日本語にそのまま直す場合は
前二つを「、」後ろ二つを「。」にすると大体はうまくいくかなーとおもいます。
日本語の句読点と一緒で、結構人によってうち方は適当だと思われますが・・・。


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 7:58 pm 
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Kana wrote:
But some of us worry about that they might not fit to display windows of KI or NEXUS. Maybe we have a chance later to check how all the translations be displayed in MOUL and fix some if needed?


Of course. There will always be an opportunity to make changes. However, MO:UL only supports limited fonts. We will be creating a series of new fonts to allow Japanese to be displayed. Until those are ready we won't be able to preview how it will look. However, even if the translations are finished, there will still be opportunities to make changes. We'll keep going until it's right!

Kana wrote:
Anyway I am going to post a poll soon. There's only few of us on discussion, and I want know what other Japanese players think about this issue.

This is a great idea!

Kana wrote:
I wish all other guild names had correspondent Japanese like this, but unfortunately they don’t :( We need to know more about their works to find a "suitable" Japanese name.

Once mystlore.com is back online, you will find that to be a great resource.

Yone wrote:
オレンジ頭少年 sounds slightly strange to me, but I prefer this. Because I think that オレンジ頭の少年 is a little more literal.

Kana wrote:
I like オレンジ頭少年 better, though オレンジ頭の少年 is a grammatically correct one. Do you write OrangeHairedBoy without spaces between words? If so, オレンジ頭少年 may show the same uniqueness and be a better translation for that reason.

Thanks for the feedback! I have used the name for many many years. People have always called me OHB. I wish I was Peter Pan and would be a boy forever, but I have grown up :( So, instead, I just use OHB now.

When it is a username, it is orangehairedboy, but when it is a title, it is Orange Haired Boy.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 10:50 pm 
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Shorah, OHB
I like "オレンジ頭少年".
Because it is suitable for the rhythm of "OHB".

...When is mystlore.com come back online?


KanaさんYoneさん
区切り記号の件、ありがとうございました。


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 12:49 am 
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Niwaro wrote:
When is mystlore.com come back online?


As soon as the software that runs it is upgraded :)

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 5:10 am 
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Hi ! OHB
Thank you for answering my question.

It is good. I am helped by mystlore.
I think that it is a knowledgeable guide.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 3:16 pm 
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OHB wrote:
Quote:
But some of us worry about that they might not fit to display windows of KI or NEXUS. Maybe we have a chance later to check how all the translations be displayed in MOUL and fix some if needed?

Of course. There will always be an opportunity to make changes. However, MO:UL only supports limited fonts. We will be creating a series of new fonts to allow Japanese to be displayed. Until those are ready we won't be able to preview how it will look. However, even if the translations are finished, there will still be opportunities to make changes. We'll keep going until it's right!

Great to hear that!
If there be anything we can help on creating new fonts, please let us know anytime.

OHB wrote:
I wish I was Peter Pan and would be a boy forever, but I have grown up :( So, instead, I just use OHB now.

In Japan, we say: Once a boy, always a boy.
If you wish, you're always welcome here in Asian Neverland :lol:


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 2:36 pm 
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Item: Age Journals / WordsIntroJournalのチェックを、お願いいたします。
コメント欄に、疑問や、そのように訳した理由を書いてありますので、合わせて見てください。
なお、日本語版で<創造主>のように、固有名詞化していた単語は<>を外して、書き込んでいます。
DEAさんにおいて、トピックを立てて、みなさんに「どんな日本語がピッタリくるか」聞いてみようと思います。
その後、また固有名詞化していた単語を直していこうと思っています。

*Delete Existing Translationを押して、訳文を訂正しようとすると、先に記入されていたコメントまで消えてしまうことに、最近、気付きました;;消したくないコメントはコピーしておかないとダメなのですね。

私事ですが、大昔、中学1年の1学期に、日本人の英語の先生に、英語のダメだしをされて以来、英語全てにおいてニガテ意識を持ってしまいました。
そんなこんなで、訳を書いておりますので、文法面・ジャーナルとしての文の意味をご確認いただければ、助かります。

バンバンとツッコミ、新訳の記入をお願いいたします。


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 3:20 pm 
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Niwaro wrote:
*Delete Existing Translationを押して、訳文を訂正しようとすると、先に記入されていたコメントまで消えてしまうことに、最近、気付きました;;消したくないコメントはコピーしておかないとダメなのですね。

自分は、逆にコメント残したかったら消せないじゃないか・・・と思いこんでおり、
丸ごとコピーして新しいのに貼り付ければ良い(件数は1になりますが)と言うことに最近ようやく気づきました(^^;


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 3:24 pm 
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D'ni固有名詞の発音について
本プロジェクトの各項目には音声ボタンがついていますが、これは自動読み上げのようで
Kadishが思いっきり「ケイディッシュ」と聞こえるetcは、これが原因のようです(「英語風」発音)。
固有名詞の読み方を検討する際、音声はあまり参考にしない方がいいかもしれません。
※2011/06/02追記:ただし、KadishのKaは「ケイ」で正しいようです。(D'ni文字での表記から)
         英語話者が元の発音に近い音で発音できるように、
         DRCが英語表記をKadishとしたのかなと思います。King Demathも同様のようですね。(参考トピック)。

それでもって、発音は基本的にはローマ字読みでいけそうです。
参考:http://www.omniglot.com/writing/dni.htm
→他に良いサイトがあると思いますが見やすかったのでとりあえず。カッコの上がアルファベットでの表記、カッコ内が発音です。本当はまだはっきりしていない部分もあるようです。


Last edited by Kana on Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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