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PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 11:55 pm 
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Last edited by OHB on Wed Feb 09, 2011 12:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 12:09 am 
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 1:01 am 
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 2:57 am 
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Elite, elitist… There seems to be some confusion as to who is what and what various speakers/authors mean when using the terms.

There are people that are elite programmers just as there are elite forces in the military. It is a matter of knowledge and ability that makes them elite. Give props where props are due.

When one speaks or writes of an elitist another factor comes into play, the speaker/writer’s motives and intention. The term elitist is often used as the term racist is used; to control a conversation or debate and elicit a kneejerk reaction, generally a tactic to stop others from thinking and manipulate them. It is also a precise description of a known behavior. I’ll repeat. It’s about behavior and belief not ability and knowledge. The listener/reader is responsible for deciding how the word is being used and deciding on the speaker/author’s motives.

Motive is not part of the defining criteria for an elitist. Belief is part of the defining criteria. Does someone believe they deserve special privileges because of their knowledge, ability, or position? If so, they are well on their way to being an elitist. It is typical for elitists to attempt to stifle opposing ideas based on what they consider their superior knowledge.

When the motive is to avoid breaking the game and such avoidance means some level of knowledge is required, it is just rational behavior. An example is requiring a minimum age before allowing one to drive on public roads. People with driver’s licenses may or may not be elitists. Having the driver’s license is not the determining criteria. That grey hats have demonstrated some ability and are allowed to do something is not the criterion that determines whether they are elitists or not. How they use that privilege over time will be the determining criterion.

While some people may feel some grey hats have previously behaved in ways that already establish their behavior that is not what is being brought up in this thread. If poor behavior is exhibited by such suspects, it will get handled. Until then, they are innocent until proven otherwise. If Cyan chooses to allow a group of people to experiment with a couple of instances of the neighborhoods, that is Cyan’s choice. Time will tell if they made a good or bad decision and whether we have elitists or just an elite group.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 7:31 am 
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 5:28 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 6:24 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 6:55 pm 
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 1:28 am 
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 3:11 am 
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 9:19 am 
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Last edited by Narameh on Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 4:57 pm 
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Well thank you for that imagery and creative analogy.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 6:32 pm 
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lol, JW. I wanted to comment on that post, but I was wincing from biting my tongue, so I couldn't see to write. :wink:

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:58 pm 
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:59 pm 
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I'd like to post a thought on terminology for folks to consider. I was in the Hood of Illusions two nights ago and met a few of those running the Hood. Very nice people and always playing within the rules they agreed to. During conversation I happened to mention the term "modder" as a replacement for "hacker". That gave me the idea to share my reasoning for using that term here.

"Hacking" in the computer sense originally meant exploring code and/or computer systems to see what they can do for the sheer joy of learning and exploration. Then, when people started using hacking techniques (copied or otherwise) to cause damage or problems on the net as a whole, the cry went up from the media: "This is hacking!" So we have all learned over and again in the last ten years from news story after news story. As for the original hackers themselves - they view malicious, damaging attacks as "cracking" not hacking and use their skills to oppose it - rigorously. Still, the stigma remains.

"Modding", as a term, is a different form of beast. So far as I know, it does not have the negative connotations of the previous description and never has. "Modders" do exactly what the Grey Hats are doing: they change games/programs and the way they work for fun, interest, education and improvement. Modding as a phenomena is also completely voluntary - you can add a mod to your game or program, but no one is forcing you to. If you like things as they are already and want no changes - great! No compulsion is there to change a single thing and you can keep on enjoying what you already have. By the very manner in which the Hood of Illusions has been established and the rules it operates within these folks fit the definition of "modders" and "modding".

I speak with some experience here - I mod for other programs (largely games) and I have used numerous mods made by others for programs of all types. Heck, in some cases I have to because some of the registered and legally licensed programs I have no longer run on modern hardware/operating systems or the program coders made a mistake and never got around to fixing it. Mods are frequently responsible for fixing these right up. "Fan patches" are a form of modding as are "unofficial patches" - these are but two of the beneficial item types modders create.

My experience with modders has been quite positive - they let me do things I couldn't before, but wanted/should have been able to. Modders are polite, work for and feel ties to a community, and are interested in those who use their work. They welcome constructive criticism and they improve their mods to make them work better. They also work for free, in the monetary sense, considering genuine thanks, the joy of discovery or restored function to something broken to be the best payment received.

Might I ask the community as a whole to consider the term "Modders" in reference to our friendly code-explorers here? Make no mistake, just as we, as a community, explore Uru in our own ethical and rule-abiding way, so too do these folks. They do it in a different manner, yes. They also have strong ethics, police themselves/their actions and possess a deep sense of fair play in what they do. Given time and reasonable freedom they will also pave the way to improvements and new things we will all enjoy and benefit from - not to mention the more immediate fun of discovery that exists for themselves and those who choose to work with them in the mean time.

Food for thought...

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