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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 3:53 am 
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EDIT: I created this thread with some common sense advice before the moderators were selected by Cyan. Now that there are moderators, it is their job to handle these things, not ours. To wit, from a moderator:

Whitch2 wrote:
While we appreciate the 'heads up' that you all are giving us here, we really need you all to let us handle the forum responses and PM's.


Original post follows:


There have recently been several new beta testers asking for help on the public forums. It is far more helpful in all respects to PM these people directly without responding with our own posts on the public forums.

As much as I've wanted to help, I do not do it publicly because the NDA we sign forbids it to any extent which demonstrates knowledge of beta or conveys information regarding beta which has not already been made public by Cyan Worlds, including the existence and/or location of these beta forums. In my opinion it is a mistake for any of us to post anything regarding beta in a public forum - even to help - because we have special and certain knowledge.

If you do help, first use the Usergroups list to confirm they are a beta tester. Some people think they've gotten into beta but really haven't. Be careful you don't accidentally inform a non-beta tester that you are in beta by trying to be helpful too soon. We have been asked not to discuss beta via email and I often wonder if PMs on this system constitutes email, but it seems reasonable to protect Cyan's and the poster's interests.

Answer their questions in a PM if Cyan thinks that's okay. Publicly posting help can violate your own NDA. Publicly posting help only draws more attention to the misguided poster's violation, implicates you as a beta tester, and perpetuates the violation while possibly drawing others into the situation. This does not do any favors for the potential beta tester or yourself.

Urge the beta tester via PM to delete or edit out their post if it's too late to delete it. If others post, it can't be deleted without great coordination or Cyan intervention, which by then is possibly too late. The attention as the thread grows only increases the risk of removal from beta testing. All signs can be eliminated if the first post is deleted before anyone else posts. That is far more helpful.

Anyone who is not in beta is free to make assumptions about the terms of the NDA and to do their best to inform the poster asking for help with beta. But anyone in beta with certain knowledge of the terms violates their own NDA in their helpful efforts to inform the poster on a public forum about such terms. There is a difference between uninformed help and informed help using protected information when it comes to an NDA no matter how carefully you choose your words.

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Last edited by JWPlatt on Mon Nov 13, 2006 1:23 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 4:45 am 
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Good of you to bring this up. These kinds of situations seem to happen often, and it's easy for people to make mistakes when trying to help out.

Regarding that guy/gal, I also checked the list and sent him a PM following his first post. Hasn't read it yet. :|

Also, you bring up a very interesting point... the basic terms of the beta, that you don't talk about the beta or say if you're a tester, are in the NDA, but since they're obvious (if beta people could say who they were or talk about the beta the public would know much more about the testers and what they test...) should you not be able to reference them? To be on the safe side I would agree with your assessment but maybe Cyan can clarify if they are lenient on this.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 4:57 am 
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Obduction Backer

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the simplest way to deal with this is to just point them to support.

http://support.urulive.com


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 7:59 am 
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Obduction Backer

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I had the same problem with conndarus' post - especially since he is in beta. JWP is right. We can only PM. (He's been PM'd in French now as well. He should be able to do something in the proper place soon).


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 8:47 am 
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Former MystOnline Moderator

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I sent a pm to conndarus :idea:
I think sinserely that "Tweek" must remove his post :wink: and perhaps " Ingeniosa" " also :idea:


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 12:21 pm 
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As far as I can tell Ingeniosa is not part of the beta. Concerning self-policing of the forums, including this message :) I think Cyan does a pretty good job overall of taking care of things themselves. My thoughts are if I have a concern about what someone is saying in the open forum who is part of the beta, I'll send them a PM and keep it private. No use of adding more fuel to the fire. And besides, I'm trying to keep a low profile :)

Ashtar


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 1:40 pm 
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Obduction Backer

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It is common knowledge beta testers have a forum

I didn't say I was a tester I just said you covered by and NDA and you should ask in the beta forums. This isn't breaching my NDA it is stating what is already known to the public.

Usually I do check and PM forgot to do so this time.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 3:34 pm 
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bah Tweek everyone knew you were in the beta from the moment it started ;)

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 3:43 pm 
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Former MystOnline Moderator

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bah Tweek everyone knew you were in the beta from the moment it started
:mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 4:04 pm 
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Obduction Backer

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Conndarus is not alone... BWB has been accepted for beta.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 4:06 pm 
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Poor, poor people. Some folks just seem to be allergic to fine print. Makes them sneeze.

Anyways, that NDA is important. I read it through 3 times. What's so hard to understand about "Don't talk about it in public"? Of course, with 1,100 beta testers, who's going to be spoiled? :P

(Just kidding. Do NOT violate the NDA.)

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 4:49 pm 
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I get the feeling a lot of people are too impatient to read the fine print. Most of us take this seriously. A few don't, and unfortunately, there's nothing we can really say or do to help them out. PMing is probly the best way to get a hold of them, but who's gonna be in charge of that? If they suddenly get bombarded with 200 pm's saying "Don't talk about this in public!!!" they'll probly run away screaming...

he he

Some people just don't get it! :roll:

~Rils

oooooohhhhh.... just had a daydream nightmare about "I can't download... I can't authenticate... I can't log in... Ae'gura is all screwed up... What's a bug ticket... What's a log... How do you put in a ticket... I can't find my logs... I can't put in a ticket... This thing sucks..." :shock:


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 4:49 pm 
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Obduction Backer

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no, people assume I am in the Beta, theres a large gap between assuming and knowing for sure.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 4:53 pm 
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I bet the majority of the community assume i'm in beta ! :lol:

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 4:53 pm 
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Kedri wrote:
Poor, poor people. Some folks just seem to be allergic to fine print. Makes them sneeze.

Anyways, that NDA is important. I read it through 3 times. What's so hard to understand about "Don't talk about it in public"? Of course, with 1,100 beta testers, who's going to be spoiled? :P

(Just kidding. Do NOT violate the NDA.)

My Mum (who had to sign it) read it through and then I read it through and then she quizzed me on it.

What happens when Open Beta opens? Is our NDA (in the sense that we are not allowed to talk about it on UO or anything like that) lifted in Open Beta, since anyone can come and see it for themselves?

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