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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 3:55 am 
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Because the conversation has continued, I am going to explain my belief on this matter in more detail. This is my opinion, and it may be corrected later by greydragon or another Cyan staff member (and it wouldn't be the first time I've been wrong). But with the information I've seen, I believe my understanding to be correct. I would not mind being told I am wrong by an authoritative source. I would actually be quite happy to hear it.

Let's start with the official statement, broken down into pieces.
Quote:
1. Cyan is committed to and dependent on Uru Live's success, so we are putting everything we have into it.
2. Since our resources are limited, we cannot actively support Until Uru as well.
3. With that said, we have no intention of taking back what we've made available -
4. we intend to maintain the auth server so existing users of Until Uru can continue to access their Until Uru shards.
5. However, because we're moving on to Uru Live, we've decided not to issue any new Kagi keys.
6. We encourage any new users who want a taste (albeit an imperfect one) of Uru prior to Uru Live to visit the D'mala shard.

(1) is fairly straightforward. No puzzle from Cyan here. They want to communicate their priorities.
(2) indicates that UU will have no "active" support. This explains why responses to uucustomersupport (at) cyan.com are infrequent and far between.
(3) is a bit of a puzzle. The question to ask here is, "What exactly has Cyan 'made available'?" Some interpret this statement to include D'mala. I don't. D'mala hasn't been given away. It is still wholy owned and controlled by Cyan. D'mala is a service, while the the Until Uru shard software and the authentication server (run by Chip) are more clearly "released" by Cyan and given to the community.
(4) indicates that Cyan will continue to maintain the auth server, but doesn't say anything maintaining D'mala, which is a data server.
(5) draws a clear distinction between allowing things to continue to exist versus fostering their growth. Limiting Kagi keys to the currently available pool ensures that growth on fan-operated shards will be minimal, and potential customers won't have a "free alternative" of growing fan material to distract them from Live.
(6) emphasizes that Cyan is encouraging new explorers to investigate D'mala.... up to the release of Uru Live, not past the release.

As D'Lanor said, a promise is a promise, and I expect Cyan will keep the promises they've made. I don't see anything in their statement that promises the continuation of D'mala past launch. It just isn't there. If it isn't spelled out in black and white, if it doesn't say "D'mala will continue past launch," then any reading of it to suggest D'mala is covered above is merely an interpretation.

D'mala continuing to exist beyond the Uru Live launch is made especially questionable in consideration of the Visitor passes that will be made available in Uru Live. While Visitors in Live may not have access to exactly the same Ages and areas as in D'mala, they will have sufficient access to stay with the community at large, and as I recall, all along that has been a primary goal of D'mala - bringing the community back together and keeping it together.

None of the words above should be construed as "Marten wants D'mala to go away." I never said that. I will never say that. Just because I am generally a pessimist doesn't mean I prefer or desire unfavorable outcomes. I'm just pointing out my perspective - I'm explaining what I believe to be a realistic and considerate analysis of the situation. I will be deeply saddened if dial-up users aren't able to get Visitor accounts working. And if Visitor accounts don't work for dialup, I hope that Cyan will strongly consider keeping D'mala around for the dialup community.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 12:20 pm 
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Chip no longer runs the uu server from what I remember GD saying somewhere they took back control of it. :?:


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 12:42 pm 
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Shadowcats wrote:
Chip no longer runs the uu server from what I remember GD saying somewhere they took back control of it. :?:

Cyan/GameTap runs the auth server for D'mala. A different auth server is used for other UU shards (I believe Chip still runs it, but I could be wrong).

Cyan/GameTap runs the data server for all UU shards.

Marten calls D'mala a data server but this is not correct. D'mala is a game server. A data server contains the downloadable data (ages incl. updates) for the clients.

That being said, I too believe D'mala will disappear after the launch of MOUL. Other UU shards will remain for a limited group of Kagi key owners.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:58 pm 
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I remember seeing and hearing somewhere that D'mala will shut down when Uru Live goes public. We were also told that the other shards will still be around and that the authentication server would stay up indefinately. We were told this by greydragon if I remember correctly.

The big problem here is that the shards other than D'mala require a Kagi key or the sharing of someone else's Kagi key.

I don't see the Shards shutting down anytime soon.

My 2c

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 1:26 am 
Well, since Until Uru is likely to be the only Uru I'll ever see, I too hope the shards stay open. If they do, I can live without D'mala if necessary.

If they don't, that will be a bit of a shame.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 8:00 pm 
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Here's my 2 cents:
I interpret GD's statement to mean that what they have made available will remain available. I assume that Cyan developed all of the content and will leave it as is. They won't support it due to lack of resources and are devoting what they have to URU Live. (As it should be) From my experience, most software developers don't continue to support products once a new version has been released. That doesn't mean it's no longer available. If you go out and purchase a program/game you'll have it as long as it physically runs. However, if something goes wrong with it, you'll get no assistance/tech support because the company has rightfully moved on to newer and better things and are hopeful that you will want the latest release. To remain profitable, developers can't support their products forever; that would be unprofitable and unrealistic. I also interpret the statement about prior to Live to mean that what a new explorer sees if he/she chooses to explore Until Uru is content developed BEFORE Uru Live. If they intend to yank the D'mala shard as soon as Live launches, a new explorer would not even have the opportunity to get a taste, albeit an imperfect one.
That being said, all we can do is wait and see what really happens. Those that really enjoy URU will sign up and begin the next part of the journey. There will also be those that choose not to continue. I think that anyone who's still around will be anxious to continue on.
I commend Cyan for making Until Uru available since the "putting to bed" of the former Live project. A "lesser" company would have cut and run and left us all hanging. Cyan's devotion and committment to it's fans speaks volumes about who they are and I'm sure they'll do what they feel is best for everyone when the time comes.

Long live Uru! Long live Cyan!


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 8:17 pm 
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Same name for me :)


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 8:20 pm 
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Quote:
If they intend to yank the D'mala shard as soon as Live launches, a new explorer would not even have the opportunity to get a taste, albeit an imperfect one.
You're ignoring the clause in the same sentence that says prior to URU Live.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 8:32 pm 
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Rusty_Russell wrote:
Quote:
If they intend to yank the D'mala shard as soon as Live launches, a new explorer would not even have the opportunity to get a taste, albeit an imperfect one.
You're ignoring the clause in the same sentence that says prior to URU Live.


davi'd, you also neglect to consider the visitor accounts which will be the new method for new explorers to try Uru for free. So yes, explorers will have the opportunity to get a taste, and they don't need D'mala to do it. And the Visitor accounts will get the benefit of bugfixes (such as Intel video chipset compatibility) not available in Until Uru.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 9:01 pm 
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GD said:
We encourage any new users who want a taste (albeit an imperfect one) of Uru prior to Uru Live to visit the D'mala shard.

No Rusty, I'm not ignoring anything. You and I are interpreting the phrase differently. I'm seeing it as Cyan saying that anything they find prior to Live as being just that. Prior meaning before and what is in Live is different than what we will see in any UU shard. You're seeing it as someone is only going to have the ability to experience the shards up until Live is released and after Live is released, our only option is to sign up for Live because UU will be closed. It may very well come to that. Cyan is a business, and a very decent minded one at that. They will want people to join them in the new URU Live to continue the journey as it was meant to be. I think that most people are looking forward to continuing and will do so.

I also said that all we can really do is wait and see what happens.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 10:52 pm 
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Ok, davi'd, I see what you mean. What you may not be aware of is this is a summary post of GreyDragon's, following much previous discussion. You also have to take into account other things in that post such as We can't support both versions and the name Until URU.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:04 pm 
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But are you shure i can be visitor?i never talk about being explorer,just visitor.so...can i play as a visitor? :?:


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 2:49 pm 
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Any Explorer will be able to send Visitor invitations to anyone they wish. Barring any major legal issues in your country, you should be able to visit Uru Live as a "Visitor" for free.

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