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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 3:09 am 
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Here is a graph of the pellet values I've seen on the forums, and on the two data collections sites mentioned in this thread.

This includes only pellets created with all four ovens on identical settings.

Image

Click for larger version.

Not much data yet, but I'll try to keep it updated.

And I apologize for the very lame visualization. It's all I could come up with quickly.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 4:12 am 
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I just finished a 30-30-30 batch, for the following results:
968, 952, 990, 970, 968, for an average of 970 points! I just started with the cave recipe, and have been adjusting +-10 points for one of the values each time I make a batch.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 4:54 am 
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belford wrote:
Here is a graph of the pellet values I've seen on the forums, and on the two data collections sites mentioned in this thread.

And I apologize for the very lame visualization. It's all I could come up with quickly.


Awesome. Yeah I was going to put something like that together too. The four-dimensional graph that I had planned to use was going to vary by time not "pressure" which I'm actually thinking is concentration (though what it represents is really not quite important).

It seems what we have is a bit of a bell curve, but we want to optimize to a ring near but not at the top (if the heightfield is the metered power), thus maximizing the pellet points. The center(s) of the curve move depending on the time variable.


As for the oven variance... I think I see how it works, possibly. It would seem that the final pellet output is the result of the pellet output of each oven averaged together equally. A 75% (bright white) output pellet recipe in two machines, and a 50% (dull orange) output pellet recipe in the other two produces a roughly 62.5% (bright orange) output pellet, which is very close to the ideal meter reading.

Of course, there doesn't seem to be much use to this if there is a recipe that produces the output we want. If there isn't one however, we can use this to tone down the bahro cave 75% recipe to precisely where we want it, once we have a sufficient variety of medium-powered recipes.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 6:23 am 
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While we're all caught up in the pellet hype with the new machine down by the docks and their connection with the theme of this new episode, I want to know if anyone knows anything more. It great that we're tackling this new puzzle to maximize points for the pellets, but is it really going to make any difference? I can't help but feel like this is a Great Zero all over again. The GZ started up when they wanted it to, not having much to do with our work. They give us a job to make us feel that we're participating and helping with the project. As hard as we work on this, I think it's going to end when they decide to include it in a future episode.

People are going to make pellets, but I really have to put the question out there, if everyone doesn't waste their time cooking up pellets and just makes one batch will it matter?


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 6:28 am 
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raistlin75 wrote:
While we're all caught up in the pellet hype with the new machine down by the docks and their connection with the theme of this new episode, I want to know if anyone knows anything more. It great that we're tackling this new puzzle to maximize points for the pellets, but is it really going to make any difference? I can't help but feel like this is a Great Zero all over again. The GZ started up when they wanted it to, not having much to do with our work. They give us a job to make us feel that we're participating and helping with the project. As hard as we work on this, I think it's going to end when they decide to include it in a future episode.

People are going to make pellets, but I really have to put the question out there, if everyone doesn't waste their time cooking up pellets and just makes one batch will it matter?


An excellent question. I wonder that myself. If this is going to work the same as the GZ, then it is a complete waste of time, other than getting bragging rights for having the highest score on your KI.

However, since the DRC has announced that there are "bad" pellets, and some have reported seeing boiling water in the silo, it gives me hope that it is not the case. Perhaps this really will be based on our actions, and it would actually even be possible to un-light the lake if enough bad pellets were thrown in. :shock:

Here's to hoping it's true...


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 6:29 am 
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raistlin75 wrote:
It great that we're tackling this new puzzle to maximize points for the pellets, but is it really going to make any difference? I can't help but feel like this is a Great Zero all over again. The GZ started up when they wanted it to, not having much to do with our work. They give us a job to make us feel that we're participating and helping with the project. As hard as we work on this, I think it's going to end when they decide to include it in a future episode.


Truthfully, I think they may let this one play out on us. If the cavern doesn't get lit - so what!? Not having the GZ Calibrated (speaking in IC right now) would have caused problems for marker missions and the like. (back to OOC) Not having the lighting correct is simply a graphics thing and won't actually change the gameplay.

I personally think they should let this one play out...


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 7:12 am 
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I'm thinking they really will let us affect this, for good or for ill. I was convinced of that as soon as I saw the machine down at the ferry docks measuring the light levels.

Actually, I think it's a brilliant move if they do. They give us something to do that:
a. Takes a long time to do, yet has a definite solution, and enough specific numeric feedback through both our KI's and the light-meter to keep us interested.
b. Is something everyone can participate in, even those who only play a little. It's also an activity that's not event-timing specific. It doesn't matter when the DRC characters show up at all or if they don't come down for three weeks.
c. And if the ongoing solution of getting the cavern lit is really hooked directly by code to what we do as it appears, then Cyan doesn't have to take precious time out of development to manage it.

Looks to me like they've covered most of the issues explorers often have with trying to participate and getting bored! I find this very encouraging for the game and player morale.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 7:30 am 
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With any luck, our actions in this one actually mean something more than it did with the GZ:

http://forums.drcsite.org/viewtopic.php?t=403

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 7:42 am 
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Deledrius wrote:
With any luck, our actions in this one actually mean something more than it did with the GZ:

http://forums.drcsite.org/viewtopic.php?t=403


Read the last post by (*_*). That's where we are.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 8:17 am 
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My pellet results:

On 45-35-25 I got 944, 917, 919, 942 and 932. Average 931

On 45-30-25 I got 948, 957, 983 and 975 (dropped one! :oops: ) Average 966

Submitted on Cubkyle's site.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 9:32 am 
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I know we're just getting started with understanding the operation of the ovens and the results of the pellets, but I think there's been too much focus on getting the highest output per pellet. If you dial pellet score back a bit while reducing cooking time, you can vastly increase your pellet points over time.

One of the highest output recipes is 45/30/25, from which I get an average of 967. At a time setting of 45, that's 4.5 hours.

I tried 25/30/35 and got an average of 859. 2.5 hours cook time.

The lowest common multiple of 45 and 25 is 225, so 22.5 hours. In the same 22.5 hour interval the first recipe gives 4835 points; the second gives 7731.

Anyone know of something more efficient? Maybe it's time to tinker a bit to find one.

Of course there are reasons why you might want to use a longer cooking recipe, maybe because you can't be around every two-and-a-half hours to deliver pellets and play with the ovens, but it's something to consider.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:51 am 
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I like the 30/30/30 recipe myself, very balanced and has a low enough time to ensure that you won't be waiting forever for each batch. And the average is consistently around 970, I tried it myself overnight! I'm betting the max score for each pellet is probably around 1000.

Also, if all of this really is code based and we experiment enough, the machine by the docks should reach 2% within the week considering how many combinations we are trying. XD


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 12:04 pm 
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I'm interested in finding out what the highest average score is that people got, while still getting an orange glow (since they said that orange glow = best).

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 12:22 pm 
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raistlin75 wrote:
People are going to make pellets, but I really have to put the question out there, if everyone doesn't waste their time cooking up pellets and just makes one batch will it matter?

Personally, I see this as a puzzle where we try to find the "ideal" recipe for a pellet. If I can contribute to a process that eventually leads to a brighter cavern, then that's a nice additional benefit.

After all, you could also say that solving all the puzzles in Er'cana just made a symbol appear which allows you to get one half of a stone ring in your Relto. You could also say that playing MOUL or any other computer game is just toggling bits in an electronic device, so why bother about it at all? Does reading a book or watching a movie matter?

I do not know about you, but I do enjoy spending time on solving puzzles in MOUL. The pellets are a nice optimization problem presented in an interesting form, in my opinion. (It boils down to an attempt to reconstruct the underlying formula by observing its results for a very small subset of its actual domain.)

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 3:11 pm 
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Marck wrote:
After all, you could also say that solving all the puzzles in Er'cana just made a symbol appear which allows you to get one half of a stone ring in your Relto. You could also say that playing MOUL or any other computer game is just toggling bits in an electronic device, so why bother about it at all? Does reading a book or watching a movie matter?
I do not know about you, but I do enjoy spending time on solving puzzles in MOUL.


I enjoy solving the puzzles too, the question I posed was simply to get feedback on what people think the result of this will be. Sure, there's no reason to do anything in the game if you don't enjoy it. Your attitude seems to be that you're solving a puzzle by trying to determine the best settings in which to operate the ovens and thereby making the best pellets. Once you've figured out how it works and how to make the "ideal pellets", then you'll probably not want to cart around pellets for weeks afterwards. We all know that some people with many avatars will be manufacturing pellets by the truckloads to progress the cavern lighting, especially if it's show that we are, in fact, making a difference.

I know quite a few people created more avatars to complete the GZ missions and hoping they were helping the cause. So there are people who are going to make one batch just to try it out, people such as you who are going to play out the puzzle aspect of it, and a third group who are going to commit themselves to it night and day. Some feel a little let down that the GZ missions really didn't matter in the scheme of things.

The old thread that was just linked with the debate about how much power we should have is very interesting and speaks more to what I was getting at with my original post. It wasn't just "why should we do this?" but rather "does this have any effect?" It's very different knowing that this will definitely affect the cavern in a noticable way, rather than having Cyan flip on the lights when they think we've had enough of the pellets.
The thread also points out that Myst attracts a more introverted player than most other multiplayer games. The concept of a online Myst is laughed at by a lot of people because Myst was always a very lonely game. So it is important that things like this get constantly introduced to bring a more cooperative feel to the game. It's certainly important that our actions start to matter and when's a better time to start than right now?


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