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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 12:22 pm 
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I found this report at the Fuzzy Physics Institute (courtesy DRC site) Perhaps one of you who have tried the various oven combinations (not all the same) can read the graphs and post the ultimate solution?

It basically says that the ovens are not the same and that some factors are more important that others (ie sensitive to temperature, longer is better)

http://home.earthlink.net/~fuzzyphysics/

Graphs (pdf format) at:

http://home.earthlink.net/~fuzzyphysics/pdfpubs/OvenCharts.zip

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 2:05 pm 
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I can confirm that Amount has a purely linear effect. If you're going for efficiency then you should always max out Amount.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:50 pm 
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So by looking at the graphs accompanyinng the Report (see above), each burner/oven has a different profile. Hence all can be set to their individual optimum. This may not create a optimum pellet mix however. We do not know how one oven affects all of the others. My read is:

[spoiler]Oven 4: 40/50/10 (this is the 'super' oven)
Oven 3: 40/30/15 (LHS closest to pellet chamber)
Oven 2: 40/37.5/18.5 (RHS across fm Super closest to vats)
Oven 1: 40/27.5/15 (RHS closest to pellet chamber)
(looking fm vats towards pellet chamber)
I have not tested this theory; just read the Report)

(the 'real' optimum appears to be between 30 - 40 on the time scale; I chose 40 for simplicity in this Post)[/spoiler]

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Last edited by FratRat on Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 5:05 pm 
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FratRat wrote:
So by looking at the grasphs accompanyinng the Report (see above), each burner/oven has a different profile. Hence all can be set to their individual optimum. This may not create a optimum pellet mix however. We do not know how one oven affects all of the others. My read is:

[spoiler]Oven 4: 40/50/10 (this is the 'super' oven)
Oven 3: 40/30/15 (LHS closest to pellet chamber)
Oven 2: 40/37.5/18.5 (RHS across fm Super closest to vats)
Oven 1: 40/27.5/15 (RHS closest to pellet chamber)
(looking fm vats towards pellet chamber)
I have not tested this theory; just read the Report)

(the 'real' optimum appears to be between 30 - 40 on the time scale; I chose 40 for simplicity in this Post)[/spoiler]


That will net you a level 9 on the meter (Medium explosion) and 0 pellet points.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 6:07 pm 
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I'm getting connection-refused on those report links.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:09 pm 
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So I misread the report - you got it right - small explosion occurred. I will stick to one of the more efficient '3 hr/all burner' recipes given that I only Log In once a day.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:59 pm 
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FratRat wrote:
So by looking at the graphs accompanying the Report (see above), each burner/oven has a different profile. Hence all can be set to their individual optimum.

[spoiler]Please note that the FPI report uses a 1~100 scale for the graphs, whereas the ovens' controls have a 0~50 range.[/spoiler] Therefore, if you use the values as given, your pellets are going to be sub-optimum and possibly damaging.

I'm cooking a batch now, and will let folks know what the results are when the little lozenges are done.

D'nn (dmuk)

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Last edited by dmuk on Wed Jul 18, 2007 2:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 12:16 am 
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Understood..and taken into account. I was trying to place the values into the 'common' vernacular. For my own use, I try to work in % of full scale..much easier to relate across different threads.

Anyway, as noted above..I created 'exploding pellets' and decided to let someone else work thru the Report and come up with the optimum combination and settings for each of the four burners.

For accounting purposes, I have retreated to all set the same at [spoiler]30/30/30 (common usage) [/spoiler]

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 2:45 am 
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After much tinkering and fiddling, the best recipe I've found is 25/40/40 which gives a score averaging around 930, a meter reading of 60% and a good, strong orange glow.

Not sure if I want to bother with doing different settings on each oven, but any suggestions for further tweaking?

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 2:55 am 
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I got the graphs from the Fuzzy Physics site... not sure whether it was a web problem on their end or my end.

Wow, that's... statistically awful. Where's the original data? The axes aren't even consistently scaled! What's the provenance of those negative points? The KI meter never reads a negative value.

ETA: I see from DRC forum discussion that their graphs are from "lab measurements" (in-character), not the KI reading. So, in fact, nobody has started doing per-oven data collection in terms of nutrient points.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 3:21 am 
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Yeah, they explode, but not as much as the 4th-of-July ones. Zero points, too, so I dumped the rest of the batch.

So maxing out the yield on the graphs isn't the only parameter. I'm going to see if there is a "iso-yield" line that can be traced into new territory.

I, too, tend to gravitate to the middle-length recipe when time isn't an issue, but the IKSR (IngisKhan's Super Recipe) works almost as well in 1/2 the cook time.

D'nn (dmuk)

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 12:08 pm 
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Concur. For the explorer that just wants to get on with it then, we have 3 useful recipes thanks to all of the hard work and intrepid ventures into the depths of Er'cana. To wit:

[spoiler]1. Bahro 'white light' solution - 40/30/20
2. Simple, all burner - 'High yield orange light' - 30/30/30
3. Super Recipe (from IngisK') - 19.5/Max/19.5 (4) & 19.5/Max/Max (1,2,3) (this gives 'High yield orange light' in half the time but needs to be exact)[/spoiler]

Other recipes for specific types of pellets are in this Forum

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 12:25 pm 
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belford wrote:
Wow, that's... statistically awful. Where's the original data? The axes aren't even consistently scaled!

Smile when you say that, pardner! Them's fightin' words!

After all, the report is an "executive summary", not a writeup for the journals, and I just wanted to give the best indication of the shape of the surfaces in a small graphic where the axes aren't really even readable. I had never thought about releasing the full-sized versions until someone asked for them.

The graphs do give a pretty good hint as to what's going on under the surface and the way in which the three factors inter-relate. But, considering that they only cover 3 widely-separated cooking times, they aren't really useful for directly selecting recipes.

Quote:
ETA: I see from DRC forum discussion that their graphs are from "lab measurements" (in-character), not the KI reading. So, in fact, nobody has started doing per-oven data collection in terms of nutrient points.

I've got a little data of that sort, but it really would take dozens of people working very hard for quite a while to get enough to produce graphs like that. Either that, or I would have to know how the points are being calculated from the raw numbers so I could write a program to generate enough data according to that formula. (And I'm sure Cyan isn't about to release that code for our amusement. :)) Even then, it would only help with the pellets that actually generate points, leaving me unable to indicate differences among the ones that don't.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 7:25 pm 
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belford wrote:
I got the graphs from the Fuzzy Physics site... not sure whether it was a web problem on their end or my end.

Wow, that's... statistically awful. Where's the original data? The axes aren't even consistently scaled! What's the provenance of those negative points? The KI meter never reads a negative value.

ETA: I see from DRC forum discussion that their graphs are from "lab measurements" (in-character), not the KI reading. So, in fact, nobody has started doing per-oven data collection in terms of nutrient points.

The FPI graphs seem accurate enough to me and confirm the data (and the anomolous points) I've been getting. Certain settings on certain ovens subtract from the optimum value, some by a large amount. Oven values that drop the pellet scores below 0 for the combined settings are only reported as 0 points on the KI although I suspect internally that they are negative. Point values that go above 1000 (the exploders) are also reported as zero on the KI. Using my diddle and guess numbering I have pellet scores that range from -1495 to 1750+. The only valid scores I ever saw in the KI was 1 to 1000. Everything else was reported as 0 points.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 10:24 pm 
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Well, perhaps we should start assigning regions of settings for Explorers to cook off pellets at... None of us are as easily entertained as all of us. :D

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