It is currently Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:15 am

All times are UTC




Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 36 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 3:32 am 
Offline
Obduction Backer

Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 12:35 am
Posts: 747
In the journals about Gahreesen, it's mentioned that they found some cages where they held beetles which would 'sniff' out ink or Linking Books, to keep people from using unapproved books and causing a security situation.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 5:41 pm 
Offline
Obduction Backer

Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2007 3:29 am
Posts: 520
I actually asked Nick this question when last I saw him, during my interview with him I questioned him alot about the bahro. He gave a rather interesting response to one of my questions:

Quote:
(05/19 19:08:49) Chloe: there's been speculation by a lot of the explorers that the D'ni's ability to link, is directly connected to the bahro's similar native abilities. Has anything in your research turned up a correlation between them. Like the D'ni learning how to link from the bahro?
(05/19 19:09:27) Nick White: Possibly. The D'ni didn't write much about the Bahro - that was a weird relationship.


I took his response as that he had found some things linking the barho and d'ni linking abilities. Hence the "possibly" and that apparently the bahro did write about the D'ni, but very little.

He also didn't know if the bahro were here before the D'ni or not. He said that that goes back a lont time. Someone asked him if the bahro were related to the slaves on Terhanee and all he said was "The Unknown?" and never responded to the question after that.

So, who knows at this point.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 8:02 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 4:33 am
Posts: 133
Location: Iowa
Reportedly, the slaves on Terahnee were perfectly humanoid, they just came from other Ages.

If the Bahro were used to make ink for Linking books, then they had to have been native to Garterney, however,we know they are native to Noloben instead.

Likewise, Yeesha claimed they had been enslaved for 10,000 years, which is just about how long ago the D'ni came to the cavern from Garterney, which might be an ominous connection, if not for the fact that the Ronay had been writing Ages on Garterney for quite a long time before Ri'neref was even born, let along gathering followers to come to D'ni.

Of course, Yeesha might have been mistaken, or inclined to lie about the 10,000 years thing, which just calls into question the truth of everything else she has said.

On the other hand, if it was true, Noloben in End of Ages looked too good to be so old of an Age, considering what a mere 200 years did to poor old Myst.

_________________
Alec Winters KI 06399622

"History is irredeemable."
- Kain, Scion of Balance


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 1:30 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2006 5:36 pm
Posts: 51
Location: Earth
Rieuco wrote:
Noloben in End of Ages looked too good to be so old of an Age, considering what a mere 200 years did to poor old Myst.

Not true. Noloben, unlike Myst, was a "natural" age. Nature can sustain itself in perfect health indefinitely. I consider it very possible that Noloben could be 10,000 years old. After all, the only man-made structures on the island were made by Esher within his lifetime and maintained.

Myst, I think, was hit with more than time. I don't know, but although 200 years can account for the damage to the structures, the damage to the trees, and essentially, all of Nature on the island, can not be explained away by saying time did it. That kind of damage could only have been done by man - I blame Esher.

_________________
The D'ni Wiki - For anything and everything Myst!
Name: Di Gama, KI: was 00555395, now 03320100
[3].[3][13][12][9][15][18][23][14]


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 3:39 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 4:33 am
Posts: 133
Location: Iowa
di gama wrote:
Rieuco wrote:
Noloben in End of Ages looked too good to be so old of an Age, considering what a mere 200 years did to poor old Myst.

Not true. Noloben, unlike Myst, was a "natural" age. Nature can sustain itself in perfect health indefinitely. I consider it very possible that Noloben could be 10,000 years old. After all, the only man-made structures on the island were made by Esher within his lifetime and maintained.


You have a point in that Noloben could be much older than I assumed, however, that has little impact on the primary topic under discussion, which is: "Are the Bahro connected to D'ni linking books?"

The answer is still no. If the Bahro were connected to D'ni linking abilities, they would have to have been native to Garterney for the Ronay to use them in such a way. Regardless of how old Noloben is, they come from there, and thus could not have been reached by the D'ni or the Ronay until they already possessed linking technology. If the Ronay already had linking technology, why would they utlize the the Bahro for linking books, or whatever, even if such a thing was possible? There would be no reason.

_________________
Alec Winters KI 06399622

"History is irredeemable."
- Kain, Scion of Balance


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 5:37 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2006 5:36 pm
Posts: 51
Location: Earth
I still don't think the Bahro are the source of the D'ni's linking ability. I don't think Gehn would have fussed so much about the kind of ink and paper if the little information he cleaned from the D'ni before the Fall included the fact that the ability to link ultimately came from the Bahro. If I were Gehn, I would have at least mentioned that in my experiments before coming to the conclusion that the ink and paper were wrong.

_________________
The D'ni Wiki - For anything and everything Myst!
Name: Di Gama, KI: was 00555395, now 03320100
[3].[3][13][12][9][15][18][23][14]


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:07 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2006 3:33 pm
Posts: 128
Location: Chroma'Agana
The ink was made from a certain kind of a beetle.


Ink
In addition to ordinary types of ink, the D'ni made a special type of Ink used only in the Art of making Ages. Without this Ink, the Art cannot be practiced. The Ink is apparently harvested in some way from certain beetles. Since the Ink was so important, the beetles were often written into the Ages to assure a good supply. The D'ni work for ink is "lehm."

_________________
Geran / The Blind Master Surveyor.
member of:
Over_40 Explorers' Bevin
KI 1450853


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 3:45 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 4:33 am
Posts: 133
Location: Iowa
di gama wrote:
I still don't think the Bahro are the source of the D'ni's linking ability. I don't think Gehn would have fussed so much about the kind of ink and paper if the little information he cleaned from the D'ni before the Fall included the fact that the ability to link ultimately came from the Bahro. If I were Gehn, I would have at least mentioned that in my experiments before coming to the conclusion that the ink and paper were wrong.


That's a good point. You're exactly right, Gehn would had to have known, and if he knew, it would have been in his journals.

_________________
Alec Winters KI 06399622

"History is irredeemable."
- Kain, Scion of Balance


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 4:24 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2007 5:36 am
Posts: 45
SO wait, maybe I missed a trick here, but where did Atrus get his ink from?

I am aware that Ghen attempted to recreate the ink, and failed to do so. This is possibly because in his creation of the age of Riven he could not "describe" the essential element that made the beetles' ink usable with books.

As it was, he probably had a very weak solution to work with, hence his need to power the books to make them even slightly useable.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 4:55 am 
Offline
Obduction Backer

Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 10:07 pm
Posts: 837
Heevan wrote:
SO wait, maybe I missed a trick here, but where did Atrus get his ink from?


BoA Spoiler:

[spoiler]Katran and Ti'ana were both in the D'ni city when they wrote Myst, so they could have stolen ink from what Gehn had collected there, and brought it to Myst. [/spoiler]

It also seems that Atrus was a much better writer than Gehn, so I wouldn't be surprised if the ink and paper weren't Gehn's only problems.

_________________
Now shut up and make it so you only have to jump once. (Spoilers)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 5:16 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2006 5:08 am
Posts: 1991
Location: Greenville, SC
Gadren wrote:
In the journals about Gahreesen, it's mentioned that they found some cages where they held beetles which would 'sniff' out ink or Linking Books, to keep people from using unapproved books and causing a security situation.


Those are the cages you climb up to get to the second floor. :)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: i got this notion...
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:32 pm 
Offline
Obduction Backer

Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2008 6:56 pm
Posts: 13
Location: Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
im not sure if this is directly related but it touches on the whole ink subject i think and i still want some opinions on it:

long time ago in Garternay, a religion is founded worshipping creatures like the Bahro (or specifically the Bahro)...books could have started to surface with the knoledge the bahro geve the "priests", maybe even showing them beutifull ages.

maybe the beatles were of garternay or another age..maybe they ate a certain plant that gave them inkmaking properties, maybe the beatles are only attracted to one of the ingredients in the ink,...anyway...

what if, with this "new Art", the "priests" gain access through carefull deliberation and equations of words what the bahro could do naturally. they could have used the power of the bahro against them, with their writing..and wrote in on a tablet or poles as a way to "imprison" them, stone lasting forever...especially if kept by the power of the bahro.

after that, ingredients could be written in to ages.

as for the "limitations" of writing (book following the link-er, writing things into ages etc...), they could have been "rules" established by either a consciencious age of writers that felt it would limit peoples bad actions if they thought it wasnt even possible, or by a group of writers that wanted the power to themselves..but a skilled writer (extremely well skilled and intuitive writer) could eventually figure out those formulas.

and i think atrus made his own ink. gehns knoledge of the ink-making and paper-making seemed only incomplete..as incomplete as his knoledge of writing? could Atrus have put things together and figured it out?


opinions please!!!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 10:24 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2007 10:29 am
Posts: 671
I believe the origins of the Bahro will answer every question we have.
Here's my thoughts: Garternay "root of the great tree" obviously a reference to reterokh jeruth "the tree of possibility". Who named the Age such an arrogant name? King Ri'neref Wrote Earth because he understood the flaws in the society of the Ronay "people of the root". Even the very names of the land of origin and its people are teeming with arrogance.

Suppose Yahvo's gift.. regehstoy "the art" were not given to the ones we know as "people of the root (of the tree of possibility)" but that it was gifted to the creatures known as Bahro. The Bahro link at will and alter the Ages unbound without any rules or regulations. They are terrible and powerful, yet reverent and meek.

In the beginning The Maker planted the seed and a tree began to grow. At the root of the tree was born the first race, the beginning of all life and the stewards of all the branches of the tree. Another people began to grow out of the first leaf, just above the root. They grew jealous of the root and wanted the power of the branches to themselves.

The people of the first leaf watched the root and The Maker, in time they learned ways of emulating the powers of the root. Using their knowledge of fundamentals they cultivated an emulator.. a beetle. The smaller and weaker substitute for their own version of the power that would allow the leaf to stand at the root and see all the branches of the tree. The people of the first leaf invaded the root and sealed the powers of the Bahro by chaining their will to a stone tablet and binding their bodies between the branches in a place we know of today as the star fissure, anchored by four points. So it was that the first leaf, having overthrown the root came to hold that title as their own. Ronay, people of the root.

And so the first leaf, under the guise of the root proclaimed themselves masters and used their stolen knowledge to see all the branches and travel to each. But The Maker saw this and was angry.. And so he covered the eyes of the new root, so that they could no longer see all the branches. Only by possibility and chance could a link be made to a branch, but which branch it leads to could only ever truly be guesswork. The atrocities of the new root were never truly forgiven, but Yahvo, in his infinite wisdom gave them time. After many eons he decreed that the new root were no longer worthy of the base of the tree. And so he destroyed the root and set events in motion that would lead to the unchaining of the true masters some 10,000 years later. For them to be free there would be required assistance.. Without the root the tree will die.. and so a Grower must come.

_________________
MOUL KI# 10281985
MOULa KI# 1492059

Fear is the mind-killer


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: i got this notion...
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 10:26 pm 
Offline
Obduction Backer

Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:18 pm
Posts: 308
NeferusBrian wrote:
maybe the beatles were of garternay or another age.

I thought the Beatles were from the age of Liverpool.

It's an interesting theory, and probably the most likely likelihood. Atrus must have made his own ink; he had so many books, I don't think he could have stolen that much from Gehn and have it last for fourty years.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 7:42 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 7:42 am
Posts: 94
Location: D'ni, where else?
Loshem, that was the most beautiful thing I have ever read on this forum, and definately the most sensible. If the Bahro enslavement is indeed what led to the destruction of Garternay then that would explain why both took place approximately 10,000 years ago. We can't discount the concept of the Maker being an actual sentient being. The actual Prophecies that Catherine weeded out of the ten milennia of religious psychobabble are too accurate, unlike Nostradamus' incredibly vague predictions that could mean anything.

As for the connection between the Bahro and the Ink, the Book of Aitrus had a section in it about Gehn's first (and only) year in the Guild of Bookmakers. His class had a visit from one of the Masters of the Guild of Inkmakers, who braught a small vat of ink with him. However, it describes the ink as small black pellets that they sifted through their fingers (not an exact quote, I'll be darned if I can find where I put my copy of the book). I'm guessing that those pellets are part of the production process of the ink; possibly something that is fed to the beetles, which then gets harvested (from what part of the beetle we may never know). The Bahro might also find what these pellets are made of in their natural habitat, and eat them to give them their linking powers, though they most likely do it by visualizing where they wish to go rather than the D'ni method of writing.

While I'm at it, the concept of the Bahro being "bound" to the star fissure intrigues me. Could that starry expanse be the void in between dimentions? The trunk of the Great Tree of Possibilities? That might make the stars themselves physical manifestations in that void of the Ages themselves; the leaves of the tree if you prefer. That would make the fissure a genuine rip in the fabric of the universe. That might also explain how the fissure links back to the cleft. The fissure might open up directly above the age of Earth, and above the desert to be more precise. The openings proximity to the age might also explain how gravity (or what passes for it in a void that theoretically exists outside of Einsteinean space, and thus shouldn't be bound by the same laws as a physical univers) pulls you downwards in space, where there should be no up or down.

(by the way, forgive me for any horrendous spelling mistakes. It's 12:30 at night and I took so long writing this that the forum logged me out before I could submit it, so I had to log back in and write it all again!)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 36 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: