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Do You Want To See The Lake Lit?
Yes, it's taking too long. We need some improvement. 66%  66%  [ 76 ]
It's on the right track, it doesn't need to go any faster. 31%  31%  [ 36 ]
No, it's going too fast already, it should slow down. 3%  3%  [ 3 ]
Total votes : 115
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 3:59 am 
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NomadMolly wrote:
Just a note, Ryan makes a very specific point that it is important that we can create pellets that both encourage and discourage the growth of the algae. This suggests a potential story line conflict regarding the effects of the increased algae or increased lighting on the cavern.

Indeed. There is already a rich history of several factions which have engaged the lake project with their own agenda. There are the "Guardians of the Lake" (GoL), an Orwellian name to be sure, who use exploding pellets to kill the algae and prevent the lighting of the Cavern. There is also the moderate "League of Light" (LoL) using research from the Fuzzy Physics Institute (FPI), which is dedicated to the status quo in the interests of protecting the algae from harm until more research can be done. They drop steamer pellets to counteract the effects of those who drop the more potent and nutritious pellets. The more benevolent LoL is often confused with the GoL which employs more radical tactics. And finally, there are those who probably comprise the majority of contributors who drop the most nutritious pellets possible in the belief that it is good for the algae and will restore the natural cycle of night and day to the algae.

Here are just a few things to read, but there is certainly a wealth of storyline to be found in a search on pellets, lake, steamers, exploding, league of light, guardians of the lake, pellet challenge, etc, etc.

Announcing the Leaugue of Light (LoL):
http://forums.drcsite.org/viewtopic.php?t=2424

Fuzzy Physics Institute (FPI) researches claims about pellet fumes:
http://forums.drcsite.org/viewtopic.php?t=2420

Guardians of the Lake (GoL), lethal consequences:
http://forums.drcsite.org/viewtopic.php?t=2444

Explorers react to the first DRC pellet graph:
http://forums.drcsite.org/viewtopic.php?t=2547

Zardoz (rumored inspiration to the GoL) releases the first analysis of lake point data given to the explorers:
http://forums.drcsite.org/viewtopic.php?t=2596

BrettM of the League of Light and FPI releases their study of the lake point information:
http://forums.drcsite.org/viewtopic.php?p=44115#44115

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 5:37 am 
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Whilyam wrote:
I see Uru as having player-made goals as of now. We're not worrying about the next level, try to get first on your hood's list, then try it on UO. It is, once again, not about YOU, but about the community. Not about YOUR level, but how you stack up compared to others.


Yes, individual achievement is the focus of most other MMO's, but the principial applies both on an individual level and a more global level. Without measurable goals or progress, a lot of people will get frustrated, as the poll clearly indicates. It's not about individual or community, it's about the concept of input/output. I kill monsters, I get experience. I drop pellets, lake lights up. The principle is the same. If I kill monsters and get no experience, why would I kill monsters? I may get some small enjoyment from it, but no lasting value. Same with pellets.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 12:06 pm 
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NomadMolly wrote:
It may be that there is no "set" point total that results in a lighting of lake, but rather, Cyan will just light it at some future point in time as part of a story element.

Unfortunately, "painting targets around bullet holes" is exactly the way some of us DON'T want this to work. It's the reason that some people were upset with the GZ calibration, when it appeared that our efforts were not really tied to the result. We have been told that this perception was not actually true in the case of the GZ, but I think it would be a mistake to let us get the same perception from the pellet project. That would not bode well for getting explorers excited about participating in any future cooperative projects.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:32 pm 
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Calam wrote:
Whilyam wrote:
I see Uru as having player-made goals as of now. We're not worrying about the next level, try to get first on your hood's list, then try it on UO. It is, once again, not about YOU, but about the community. Not about YOUR level, but how you stack up compared to others.


Yes, individual achievement is the focus of most other MMO's, but the principial applies both on an individual level and a more global level. Without measurable goals or progress, a lot of people will get frustrated, as the poll clearly indicates. It's not about individual or community, it's about the concept of input/output. I kill monsters, I get experience. I drop pellets, lake lights up. The principle is the same. If I kill monsters and get no experience, why would I kill monsters? I may get some small enjoyment from it, but no lasting value. Same with pellets.

As I said before, you're "competing" not to achieve some level, but to beat the other guy. In that way, all the people with more points than you are the "levels" you have to reach.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 5:44 pm 
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Whilyam wrote:
Calam wrote:
Whilyam wrote:
I see Uru as having player-made goals as of now. We're not worrying about the next level, try to get first on your hood's list, then try it on UO. It is, once again, not about YOU, but about the community. Not about YOUR level, but how you stack up compared to others.


Yes, individual achievement is the focus of most other MMO's, but the principial applies both on an individual level and a more global level. Without measurable goals or progress, a lot of people will get frustrated, as the poll clearly indicates. It's not about individual or community, it's about the concept of input/output. I kill monsters, I get experience. I drop pellets, lake lights up. The principle is the same. If I kill monsters and get no experience, why would I kill monsters? I may get some small enjoyment from it, but no lasting value. Same with pellets.

As I said before, you're "competing" not to achieve some level, but to beat the other guy. In that way, all the people with more points than you are the "levels" you have to reach.


But that's not the ultimate goal. The goal is to light the lake. "Beating" everyone's scores is only a byproduct of that goal.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 5:55 pm 
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I sure hope Dr. Terent Ristle updates his study on the lake light levels soon. It seems like with all the recent new data, he could draw a number of new conclusions.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 6:34 pm 
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I just posted that maybe he should revisit the study because his efforts were made before the daily release of data by Mr. Laxman and Dr. Watson to the explorers.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:12 pm 
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@JWPlatt
O dear... i've made a bad first impression on you calling hoods Bevin's... and i'm very pleased to have it explained by you, by giving me some threads. I tried to read all posts on all threads, but for english is not my native language, it takes a lot of time, and i'm still a tiny bit confused (even -some- greeters (on duty) call their hood a bevin, when it is actually seret, or do i also get that wrong? if so: then it is really my mis-understanding the english, and then i have to do something about that!)
So i'm sticking with my first approach: when somebody refers to bevin, i'll reply also with bevin, if somebody refers to hood, i'll reply with hood.
That's one. ;)

Second, i'm also very pleased with your post with all the threads with discussions on the Lake points, the different groups etc.
I've read them all (crossreading, if i'm being honest), but still confused ;)
- blutec bows for your great input on the pellet-thing -
What has this humble, simple me to do to do the Pellet-routine the right way?
I bake my pelletbatch with the best recipes, and can do this 3 times a day.
What is the right time to leave my pelletpoints at the Pellet Points' hood?
- after each dropped batch?
- every day (points of 3 batches)? Is there a specific time you want this counting for the day? I live at KI+8hrs (for my day begins when it is still yesterday at KI/Cavern)
- once a week? (wich day?)

Sorry, on this one no intellectual input from me, i'm just a servant on this, please use me as such.
On other matters you can address my mind, but not this one... sorry.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:29 pm 
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@VixBlu, the data on the left imager (the daily and weekly and total values) are automatically calculated. When you drop your pellets, they count towards the lake points, you don't have to do anything for that. All your pellets have effect.

You can save up the points in your KI (those points are different than the lake points that are automatically calculated) to build a high score to post on one of the imagers on the right in each 'hood (in Pellet Points' Bevin for example).

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:43 pm 
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VixBlu,

Thanks for stopping back. Apparently Erik uses "Bevin" too, so you're in good company. ;) The Greeters use the word because they'd rather not confuse newcomers with issues they can learn about later. And many people just don't observe the Bevin Objection. Someday, perhaps they'll be enlightened.

You can give your points to any hood, but the Pellet Points hood appreciates your support.

The pellets count as soon as they are dropped into the water. The hood imagers only report what has been dropped.

As Erik says, you can give your points to the imager on the right at any time. You can save points for as long as you wish if you want to try to get your name on the scoreboard. I think the lowest score displayed in the Pellet Points hood is about 100,000 right now. Or you can just give your points every time you drop pellets. It's up to you.

Thanks for your support!

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:44 pm 
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Calam wrote:
Whilyam wrote:
Calam wrote:
Whilyam wrote:
I see Uru as having player-made goals as of now. We're not worrying about the next level, try to get first on your hood's list, then try it on UO. It is, once again, not about YOU, but about the community. Not about YOUR level, but how you stack up compared to others.


Yes, individual achievement is the focus of most other MMO's, but the principial applies both on an individual level and a more global level. Without measurable goals or progress, a lot of people will get frustrated, as the poll clearly indicates. It's not about individual or community, it's about the concept of input/output. I kill monsters, I get experience. I drop pellets, lake lights up. The principle is the same. If I kill monsters and get no experience, why would I kill monsters? I may get some small enjoyment from it, but no lasting value. Same with pellets.

As I said before, you're "competing" not to achieve some level, but to beat the other guy. In that way, all the people with more points than you are the "levels" you have to reach.


But that's not the ultimate goal. The goal is to light the lake. "Beating" everyone's scores is only a byproduct of that goal.

And I'm saying that can be a goal. That's the feedback we have, the pellet points. While, yes, the ultimate goal is to light the lake, the same is true of normal leveling. You may go up one level, but your ultimate goal is to get to level X so you can get the Bag of Destruction or the Sword of a Million Tears (thing about that is, the Sword of a Million Tears apparently actually sheds a million tears. Lots of water, horrible to clean up after.). Same with Uru.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:09 pm 
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Did someone say Objection!?!

:D

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:16 pm 
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JWPlatt wrote:
You can give your points to any hood, but the Pellet Points hood appreciates your support.

If I might step into this to explain just a wee bit more. VixBlu, you may have already gathered this from reading the threads JWPlatt directed you to, but the Pellet Points neighborhood was created specifically to demonstrate to the DRC the community's interest in obtaining more feedback from them regarding the lake lighting project.

No matter where you deposit your points, or whether or not you even deposit them at all, your pellet dropping will still contribute to the lake lighting effort.

And, while JWPlatt has managed to wrangle some information from the DRC, there is still much more we would like to know, so depositing your points there is your way of telling the DRC that you are part of the community that would like to receive more feedback for your hard work.

Hope that clarifies things for you. :)

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:17 pm 
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yes!
i finally get this!
and despite all threads, just a single (well, two actually, Erik & JWPlatt) post makes all the differnce.

but still no intellectal input from me, just the pellet ;)

i even get so clever form your explaining, that i finally got to read the discussion between Whilyam & Calam, very interesting, but even way beyond meta for this stumblin' blundrin' explorer to comment on that too -but i'll get that one soon! for this is a greeters' hood ;)

Thx! :D
& Tai'lahr too! for saving me at the bevinhoods-thing + explaining the 'show my participation & ask for feedback'-option you have by choosing Pellet Point hood.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 11:33 pm 
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Whilyam wrote:
Calam wrote:
Whilyam wrote:
Calam wrote:
Whilyam wrote:
I see Uru as having player-made goals as of now. We're not worrying about the next level, try to get first on your hood's list, then try it on UO. It is, once again, not about YOU, but about the community. Not about YOUR level, but how you stack up compared to others.


Yes, individual achievement is the focus of most other MMO's, but the principial applies both on an individual level and a more global level. Without measurable goals or progress, a lot of people will get frustrated, as the poll clearly indicates. It's not about individual or community, it's about the concept of input/output. I kill monsters, I get experience. I drop pellets, lake lights up. The principle is the same. If I kill monsters and get no experience, why would I kill monsters? I may get some small enjoyment from it, but no lasting value. Same with pellets.

As I said before, you're "competing" not to achieve some level, but to beat the other guy. In that way, all the people with more points than you are the "levels" you have to reach.


But that's not the ultimate goal. The goal is to light the lake. "Beating" everyone's scores is only a byproduct of that goal.

And I'm saying that can be a goal. That's the feedback we have, the pellet points. While, yes, the ultimate goal is to light the lake, the same is true of normal leveling. You may go up one level, but your ultimate goal is to get to level X so you can get the Bag of Destruction or the Sword of a Million Tears (thing about that is, the Sword of a Million Tears apparently actually sheds a million tears. Lots of water, horrible to clean up after.). Same with Uru.


That's true. I suppose for some people, beating other people's scores can be seen as a goal. But not necessarily for everyone.

As for the pellet points being feedback; they may be feedback in the technical sense, but they really have no meaning if there is nothing to measure them by. Without knowing how many pellets it will take to light the lake, they're kind of useless to us, other than measuring up scores with other people. And for the people who don't like measuring up against other people, they hold no value whatsoever. It goes back to my example of trying to level up without knowing how many experience points it takes to get to the next level. You may think, "great, I have 6,000 XP!" But it doesn't do you much good to know that if you have no clue how many XP you have left to get to level Z. It may be 10,000 XP, or it may be 10 billion XP. Without knowing either way, you really can't measure your own progress.

Sure, you may earn more XP than the next guy, and can say, "I have more XP than you," but does it really mean anything if neither of you know how many XP you have left to go?

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