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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 12:16 am 
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Sorry for the double post, but it's necessary to get the thread stickied and still be able to edit it.

Thanks to Whitch2 for the help and "The Goodie List" for being a good example! :D

Here is a link back to the original thread.

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Last edited by Frisky Badger on Sun Jun 05, 2011 3:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 12:17 am 
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Mods, if this could get "stickied" that would be awesome.

Ok, I'm starting this thread for a few reasons...

1. The Guild Masters at the Guild of Maintainers and the Guild Councilors at the Guild of Writers are getting buried by PMs about this. There just aren't enough hours in the day for RL and answering all the PMs, so we will no longer answer questions about the FCAL process through PM. Now if we used the cavern day/night cycle...

2. To consolidate information. With fan content playing a large role in the future of MORE, it would be a lot easier if all the information was in one spot.

3. Transparency, since some people still fear the [sarcasm]almighty, power mongering, baby eating...[/sarcasm] Guilds

Relevant Material

FCAL = Fan Created Art License

Cyan's letter to the community wrote:
You should know that the roadmap does not involve any new content from Cyan at this time. The plan is to start to move the content creation - the "Art" - to you. In addition the guilds themselves will start to exercise some authority in writing, monitoring, approving, communicating, etc.

Source: http://messengers.sixpencemedia.com/newsevents/newsitem.php?thisItem=268

the Roadmap wrote:
The Guild of Maintainers (in conjunction with Guild of Writers) will act as an agent in approving fan created content creation for MORE.

Source: http://messengers.sixpencemedia.com/newsevents/newsitem.php?thisItem=269

GoMa/GoW/Cyan Proposal wrote:
This proposal is for the Guild of Maintainers (GoMa) with the Guild of Writers (GoW) to act as agents for Cyan Worlds as far as FCA licenses associated with Uru: Complete Chronicles (Uru:CC) are concerned. The Fan Created Art covered by the proposal includes all material delivered via the Uru Library Manager (ULM) within the game itself, such as Ages, Ahra Pahts shells, collectables, or elements of the same such as textures, sounds, objects, animations, journals (including fan fiction delivered in-game), etc.


It does NOT include FCA associated with other Cyan games or delivered outside the game via website or other means -- for this material, individuals should continue to contact [email protected].


Also, MORE itself will require a stricter view of approval. GoW and GoMa may possibly lend guidance to this process but the final decision would be Cyan's.


Anyone wishing to create a ULM-delivered Age or other item needs to apply for and obtain an FCA license before their work is placed on the ULM for sharing publicly. They understand that the FCA license is a binding agreement between them and Cyan Worlds, and that they must meet its requirements.


They also understand that GoMa and GoW are the guilds that will regulate this function on Cyan's behalf. Violations of the FCA license will ultimately be brought to the attention of Cyan, and Cyan will determine the final course of action.


Once approved, the FCA license applies to all versions of an Age or body of work.


Revoking an FCA license must be an action taken by Cyan, but can be requested by the FCA panel. However, an FCA license can be denied by the FCA panel.


FCA applicants can reapply for an FCA license if they have changed the criteria that caused the denial of the FCA license in the first place.


In this instance, FCA includes any content that would be added to Uru:CC, including Ages, collectables, or elements of the same such as textures, sounds, objects, animations, journals, etc. It may be expanded in future to include material for MORE.


FCA panel


GoMa and GoW will jointly set up a panel of guild members that will serve as the contact point for the FCA process. Panel members will be chosen by the guilds' leadership teams, and will serve initially for a term of a few months. The FCA panel's work falls within the remit of the GoMa Submissions department, under the leadership of its Guildmaster.


All panel members should consider themselves under a non-disclosure agreement (NDA) with regard to any FCA application. The contents of any FCA application are confidential until/unless the applicant reveals the information themselves.


If a panel member applies for an FCA license, they will need to stand down from the panel while their application is processed.


Outline of the FCA process


1. FCA candidates will submit a proposal to the FCA panel either through a web interface or through the Uru Library Manager (ULM). The candidate will provide enough details of the age and storyline to help the approval process. The FCA candidate must agree to the FCA terms (such as by clicking on an "I agree" button).


2. Using guidelines provided by Cyan, the FCA panel, working within the remit of the GoMa Submissions Department under the leadership of its Guildmaster, will review the applications and make sure that nothing in the application conflicts with other Ages, or Cyan and Fan storylines, etc., and will approve or deny FCA requests.


3. The FCA panel will send approved applications with the agreed terms to Cyan (either immediately or in batch) for Cyan to keep on record (since the agreement is between Cyan and the FCA candidate).


4. The FCA panel will provide monitoring to ensure FCA candidates keep to the terms of the FCA license. Should there be any violations, they will be brought to the attention of Cyan, and Cyan will determine the course of action.

Source: http://messengers.sixpencemedia.com/new ... isItem=271

andylegate wrote:
Here is a copy of some of the guidelines for FCAL application. Cyan can expand upon these if they so desire, however, what they saw, they said "Good." so far to:

Quote:
An FCAL application for Ages must include:
* Age name (and preferred 4-letter short form)
* brief description of what the Age is about
* brief storyline for the Age
* intended use
* any other information that the FCA panel might need to know

An FCAL application for other content must include:
* the content's name
* a brief description of the content's appearance and purpose
* storyline if applicable
* its intended use
* any other information that the FCA panel might need to know


Main conflicts that I can see would be Name and storyline.

Now, it seems some are possibly thinking that the way this works is: you submit your application, and the panel finds a problem, so they just deny you the FCAL.
No. That's not how it works.

The FCAL panel notes a problem (if indeed it is a problem), and contacts the applicant. The FCAL panel explains what the problem is:
Your Age name is exactly the same and one that has been done already.
In your storyline, you said Stejovis got eaten by a bahro, but as you can see, he's sitting right here on the panel with us.

These type of conflicts should be easily resolved by the Writer and the panel, and the approval for the license goes forward, and the Writer goes and makes his or her Age / Shirt / Whatever.

If instead the problem is a "gray" one: IE Storyline says that Yeesha stopped by the Age and left a bottle of moonshine that she got from Kentucky. That's when RAWA has to be consulted, and has said that he can act as a point of contact to help resolve issues such as this type (and the GoA will be working with RAWA and also on the FCAL Panel).

If the problem is something that the Writer will not fix for some reason (they are using a name already used but insist that they picked it first), the FCAL will be denied by that panel.
The Writer could then do the following:
Change the name and reapply.
Wait for a different panel and see what they say (more than likely they'll say NO in this case too).
Or appeal to an agency that can act as a appeal that can overrule the FCAL Panel.

With that last one, there is only one outside agency that can overrule the FCAL Panel: Cyan.

Let me say once again: The FCAL Panel does not judge an Age before or after on quality or mechs of an Age. If an Age that gets a FCAL is made, and then when inspected, all the FCAL Panel finds is a flat plane, with a box and and a linking book on the box that links you to one side of the same Age, then so be it. As long as that Age loaded properly, did not cause Uru to crash or the computer to lock up, or have Yeesha children running around in it, then the panel says: Yep, you kept to the FCAL.

It's up to Cyan whether or not that Age is good enough to be put anywhere. Not the FCAL Panel. All the FCAL Panel is doing, is acting as a mouthpiece for Cyan Legal. Period.

Cyan's Third Pary Work criteria wrote:
General guidelines for TPW asset use:


  1. Your work (Third Party Work/TPW) will not be sanctioned by Cyan.
  2. Cyan will not assist in the creation of your TPW. You are responsible for researching all public information created by Cyan on Cyan's products to ensure that your TPW conforms with and does not conflict with our works.
  3. Your TPW shall not sully, soil, deface, or otherwise discredit Cyan's current story lines, events, characters, or places. You may create your own events, characters, etc., however these new additions must not alter or conflict with works Cyan has already made public. Additionally, Cyan may, from time to time make public, new story lines, characters, etc., which at the time of their release by Cyan shall be considered "fact." And should your TPW contradict or conflict with Cyan's work, you are responsible and required to modify your TPW to resolve the conflict.
  4. Given the potential magnitude of TPWs related to Cyan's properties, Cyan is unable to advise you and is under no obligation to advise you regarding compliance of your TPWs to Cyan's story lines, etc.
  5. Your TPW shall not be for profit, barter, trade or any other form of commerce, whether directly or indirectly by you or another party from which you or other parties benefit in any form.
  6. The grant of license may be revoked at any time.
  7. If you do not agree with each of these terms and conditions, do not create your TPW based on Cyan's products.

Source: http://www.cyanworlds.com/legal/guidelines.php

Here are RAWA's Guidelines for Official Story/Age Creation.

Now, to address some concerns that have already been voiced...

The Guilds are making a power move/requested this.
This is absolutely false. Chogon approached the GoMa Guild Masters and GoW Guild Councilors about this. He asked us to keep the information to ourselves because he wasn't sure that it would work and/or even happen. If you need more proof...
Chogon wrote:
After that, I was still reading the MOUL forums and noticed that GreyDragon kind of disappeared and then the MOUL mods are PMing wondering what is going on. So, I convinced Tony that we just can't let the community wither in the wind and some one should do something. Of course, Tony says, OK, how about you. So, I started working a few hours a day on the community management and then Tony starts sending me the legal requests as well and that is when I started to piece together an idea of having the Guild of Maintainers actually do the FCA requests for Uru. I wasn't sure Tony would in the end go for it and I wasn't sure GoMa would go for it... so that is why I contacted you guys in secret.

Source: http://www.mystonline.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=15821

Quality will be part of the FCAL approval process.
Not quite. The only "quality" that will considered is whether the content is techinically stable. In other words, does the Age/clothing/emote cause the servers to blow up. The other criteria will involve copyright infringement of any kind and story conflicts. That includes both Cyan storyline and fan storyline. We don't want to kill off andylegate in one story and then all of a sudden he pops up in another, perfectly alive. Two notes regarding storyline conflicts: RAWA was supposed to give us some direction regarding Cyan story conflict but never got around to it, what a slacker (just kidding, please don't feed me to the Bahro). I imagine he is even busier now that MORE is being worked on so I don't know when we will see any guidelines for that. Second note: Rand and RAWA have talked to Alahmnat about having the Guild of Archivists monitor the storylines for potential conflicts so the GoA may be added to the proposal if they accept that responsibility.

The FCAL proposal is for Uru:CC only/the FCAL process for MORE is still open for debate:
Well, yes and no. The original proposal was created for Uru:CC with the idea/hope that someday it would be converted for an online Uru. This was done before the announcement of MORE. Since this is only a proposal, of course it is open for debate. But, the process, as is, already has Cyan's approval. That doesn't mean it can't be changed, but don't think it was just quickly thrown together.

Relevant QA from the July 3rd press conference:

<Atheni33> How involved is Cyan going to be with the guilds?
<<Chogon>> We hope that the Guilds and Cyan will like partners in this new adventure. So, there will lots of involvment in both directions.

<Hitana> having your little staff; where exactly do you need help we players could possibly provide? and would you just give away the tools needed for that help?
<<Chogon>> We having completely sorted that out yet. But joining the guilds is a start because that is where we are going to ask for help first.
<<Chogon>> Sorry.. I meant "We haven't completely sorted that out yet."

<Simon_Bitdiddle> Will the Guildmasters be our representatives to Cyan for flow of information or will there be clearly defined Cyanist responsibilities for various aspects of canon and policies?
<<Chogon>> Cyan will still be responsibile for things like canon and policies and how things should come together. We will take input from the guilds but on the big things, Cyan will make the decisions.
<<Chogon>> But also we hope that information doesn't have to go through guildmasters but flow from fans also.

<TomahnaGuy> What is your position on storyline related content from Cyan's part? I know you guys have said that Cyan content is still "pie in the sky" but what is your stance on continuing the storyline?
<<Chogon>> we definitenly want to continue the storyline. There will be story guidelines post by Cyan that for the user created content to stay away from so that we can continue.

<Erik> Aside from user-made Ages would users also be able to create content like notebooks in existing Ages? (Like a journal in your Relto that others can read)
<<Chogon>> The roadmap and most of the discussions have been about age creation... but there is a lot more things that user created content can be. Such as clothing, emotes, and more objects in your relto or neighborhood

<Lontahv> Chogon When Fan-Created-Ages are allowed will you "legalize" pyprp... if you know what I mean. Because I've grown very used to Blender and comfortable with adding features to PyPrp and would like to continue
<<Chogon>> Yes. PuPrp will be one of the tools. When the source for the plugin get released then the authors of PyPrp can modify it to include more things.
<<Chogon>> and be compatible with MORE.

<CC>[Eleri] Erik touched on this a bit, but with Age building as the primary focus, how can non age builders contribute? Will there be tools for objects and animations and avatar options? What about fan run 'characters' like JD Barnes, will there be a plac {continues}
<CC> e for fan story?

<<Chogon>> The details are worked out yet... but yes. I'm not sure how user friendly the tools will be or whether there will be something in-game to use to create.
<<Chogon>> Sorry... I meant the detail are not worked out yet.

<Nadnerb> rephrase: Will there be an offline release of the client for local testing of new ages prior to any submittal, or will we need to use full on-line server for testing from the start of development? (and in either case, how will that be handled?)
<<Chogon>> Not sure how that is going to work yet. But I am thinking that to test your age you will connect to the Cyan server but be allowed to have local data.
<<Chogon>> Obviously there was to be some way to tell the server what you are doing... that way you can have other people help you test multiplayer

<Jamey> Will flymode patches for Avatars be given to the writers and maintainers to examine our ages?
<<Chogon>> Good question (again). Obviously there will have to be some kind of debugging tools for age creators. Not sure what they will be yet.

<Poseidon> will we have the ability to add on to the city and relto to make more room for the age linking books that are due to be submitted? or are these places sacred ground that only cyan can add to, also what of the ages that were conceptualized by cyan but never finished.. could we step up and turn those ages into reality for you guys?
<<Chogon>> There will be sacred areas that the age creators will have to stay away from so that Cyan can continue creating content in those areas.
<<Chogon>> RAWA and Rand have been working on a guideline for those areas, which should be very close to being released.

Posted Questions and Answers: Please post any questions regarding the FCAL process below.

Is this meant to address bringing past content into MORE that was originally developed for Uru:CC and was installed through ULM? Or does this address the use of future content in Uru:CC for offline development/testing purposes that can then be brought into MORE officially at a later date?
We definitely want to bring past fan Ages from Uru:CC into MORE. As I understand it, only minor changes are required to make the Ages compatible with MORE. As for the second part of the question, where development/testing will take place has not been determined yet. Though it would be a waste of time to create an Age for Uru:CC and then have to change it to make it compatible with MORE. There has been talk about adapting the ULM to work with bringing content to MORE, though nothing more than "it's a possibility". Those are details that are yet to be worked out.

When should we expect to begin using the new FCAL process for Uru:CC? In other words, when do we stop sending FCAL applications to Cyan legal? When the new process begins, where exactly do we send the FCAL applications?Good question. We wanted to give the community some time to view and digest the proposal and then make suggestions. We still haven't determined how FCAL apps will be submitted (email, web form, etc). For now continue submitting applications to Cyan until further notice. I'm sure there will be a big announcement. In the meantime, I'll try and find out if Cyan has an idea for when they would like us to take over the process.

I notice the current version of the Third Party Work thing from Cyan, specifically point 3, states that we may create our own events, characters, Ages and so on, as long as we don't affect Cyan's storyline. Would I be right in thinking that that does not rule out the possibility of creating D'ni characters, Ages and events under those terms, i.e. the characters, Ages and events created would have to have no impact on the history as laid out or the areas already created?
As Dot said, yes you can, but we don't have the exact details of that yet so you might want to hold off setting up anything to big. Also as Dot noted, if in the future Cyan's evolving story conflicts with your's, your story may have to be changed.

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Last edited by Frisky Badger on Thu Jul 10, 2008 10:25 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 12:44 am 
I notice the current version of the Third Party Work thing from Cyan, specifically point 3, states that we may create our own events, characters, Ages and so on, as long as we don't affect Cyan's storyline. Would I be right in thinking that that does not rule out the possibility of creating D'ni characters, Ages and events under those terms, i.e. the characters, Ages and events created would have to have no impact on the history as laid out or the areas already created?

Because that would leave me all the room I need to play in...though of course I would expect that any proposal of that kind would receive a more stringent scrutiny than one based purely among the explorers.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 11:57 am 
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Yes, possibly -- though we will need the detailed storyline guidelines from Cyan to be sure.

However, point 3 of Cyan's TPW criteria goes on to say:
Quote:
Additionally, Cyan may, from time to time make public, new story lines, characters, etc., which at the time of their release by Cyan shall be considered "fact." And should your TPW contradict or conflict with Cyan's work, you are responsible and required to modify your TPW to resolve the conflict.


So if Cyan later produces something that is contradictory to your previously created D'ni characters, Ages and events, then you will have to go back and modify your work to remove the conflict. That might involve a fair amount of work.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 12:13 pm 
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Very nice. I'm glad for that clarification of "quality". Here's hoping this takes off.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 7:29 pm 
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Kero usefully suggested that Andy's post below be copied in this FAQ.

andylegate wrote:
Here is a copy of some of the guidelines for FCAL application. Cyan can expand upon these if they so desire, however, what they saw, they said "Good." so far to:

Quote:
An FCAL application for Ages must include:
* Age name (and preferred 4-letter short form)
* brief description of what the Age is about
* brief storyline for the Age
* intended use
* any other information that the FCA panel might need to know

An FCAL application for other content must include:
* the content's name
* a brief description of the content's appearance and purpose
* storyline if applicable
* its intended use
* any other information that the FCA panel might need to know


Main conflicts that I can see would be Name and storyline.

Now, it seems some are possibly thinking that the way this works is: you submit your application, and the panel finds a problem, so they just deny you the FCAL.
No. That's not how it works.

The FCAL panel notes a problem (if indeed it is a problem), and contacts the applicant. The FCAL panel explains what the problem is:
Your Age name is exactly the same and one that has been done already.
In your storyline, you said Stejovis got eaten by a bahro, but as you can see, he's sitting right here on the panel with us.

These type of conflicts should be easily resolved by the Writer and the panel, and the approval for the license goes forward, and the Writer goes and makes his or her Age / Shirt / Whatever.

If instead the problem is a "gray" one: IE Storyline says that Yeesha stopped by the Age and left a bottle of moonshine that she got from Kentucky. That's when RAWA has to be consulted, and has said that he can act as a point of contact to help resolve issues such as this type (and the GoA will be working with RAWA and also on the FCAL Panel).

If the problem is something that the Writer will not fix for some reason (they are using a name already used but insist that they picked it first), the FCAL will be denied by that panel.
The Writer could then do the following:
Change the name and reapply.
Wait for a different panel and see what they say (more than likely they'll say NO in this case too).
Or appeal to an agency that can act as a appeal that can overrule the FCAL Panel.

With that last one, there is only one outside agency that can overrule the FCAL Panel: Cyan.

Let me say once again: The FCAL Panel does not judge an Age before or after on quality or mechs of an Age. If an Age that gets a FCAL is made, and then when inspected, all the FCAL Panel finds is a flat plane, with a box and and a linking book on the box that links you to one side of the same Age, then so be it. As long as that Age loaded properly, did not cause Uru to crash or the computer to lock up, or have Yeesha children running around in it, then the panel says: Yep, you kept to the FCAL.

It's up to Cyan whether or not that Age is good enough to be put anywhere. Not the FCAL Panel. All the FCAL Panel is doing, is acting as a mouthpiece for Cyan Legal. Period.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 10:41 am 
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Sudre started a thread on basic age canon, especially with regards to linking rules. Dachannien raised a point that might need taking into account in the FCA process.

Dachannien wrote:
Cyan is ultimately approving all UCC content, right? Well, perhaps one of the jobs of the GoMa would be to write up a brief synopsis of a prospective age's linking mechanics. That synopsis is submitted to the Cyantists, along with the basic premise and origin of the age, as part of its final approval, and if they decide that an age's linking mechanics don't fit in with RAWA's linking rules, they can veto it, indicating the specific thing that's wrong (so the author can fix it, if possible) without providing a big document that describes all the rules for linking in detail.


Edit: RAWA has now posted guidelines for official story/age creation here: http://www.mystonline.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=15890

The guidelines also make clear the role of the Guild of Archivists in the FCA process.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 8:13 pm 
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The leadership team at the Guild of Maintainers has been discussing how to get this process moving. We'll be trying to crystallise the process over the next few weeks and would like the first set of panel members to work on this. But for that, we need the panel!

To quote Montgomery, who is the GoMa Grand Master in charge of the Submissions Department:
Quote:
My proposal is (currently) to have 3 members from each of these guilds [GoMa, GoW and GoA] serve on the panel, giving a nice round 9 total. Eventually we will have a web-based FCA Application, and those submitted to the panel will be reviewed, commented on and voted on in one central location -- in the GoMa forum. Probably there will be a FCA Panel subforum created just for this purpose, and it will be visible only to current members of the panel. I'm thinking just setting up a simple poll for each application, and each panelist can vote and comment, and the results and a summary of the comments can be returned to the applicant.

However, all of this -- the wording of the form, the process for accepting/rejecting an application, terms and length of panel membership, etc. -- will be discussed among the whole panel once it has been formed. So whoever is selected to be the first wave of FCA panelists will need to be willing to help invent the process.

So, please reply [using one of the links below] if you are interested. ... The way I envision it, the panel will change fairly often -- maybe every few months or after a certain number of applications -- depending on how many are on the waiting list. So if you don't make it on the first wave, don't give up!


Maintainers, volunteer here: http://www.guildofmaintainers.org/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=712

Writers, volunteer here: http://www.guildofwriters.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2310

Archivists, volunteer here: http://www.dpwr.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=5445&pid=24539&st=0&#entry24539


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 9:27 pm 
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I just wanted to make a suggestions to pass around to the 3 groups. Think about having a group of 3, say the writters, that are voted in until they step down. Then another 3, say maintainers, that are voted in for say 5 months. Then the final group that is voted in for a year. With that system you always have experienced members on the panel. You could also do a similar thing but make the rotation between the 3 people in each group. You could also consider term limits but for now I think that would not be needed.... Have to see how popular it is to be a panel member.

Just an idea.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 8:53 am 
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Thanks, Sudre. Would you like to be on the panel and put forward the ideas in person? You would be very welcome, as would any other volunteers.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 4:11 am 
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So am I right to Say that we will not be able to 'Restore' OUR hood instances of the City? and Hoods?
Example; I want to put in wall and floor meshes for some of the hollow shelled buildings using textures from
The game itself. (Using only the acettes (spelling) that is already in the game for textureing mainly but also
game objects like the viewer lights pipes from ahnonay used for plumming pipes etc.) I was thinking
how fun and a lot easer for the layman to be able to learn and put their 2 cents worth in the soup kettle.
(Thinking of something another old still running online mmo just announced reciently, Ryzom just released
I believe a stand alone plugin program which allows users to creat their very own Quests, levels, dungeons, etc.
using any of the acesets in the game that includes objects, textures, scripts, animations & NPCs even!.
these user made quests are a instance that can be left up or it will delete itself after the maker of the quest
logs out.) So I naturaly after reading about this new tool I thought about the city instances, thinking that Hoods could get together and have contests the hood members will have to collabarate and work together to restore their instance of the city!
Cyan could at a later time visit all these moded cities and pick out key things in all that they like and add them to the public canon City! (hypotheticly if Cyan were to get something like this and use it, it could be mixed in with The crystal viewer Ryme age. or Myst5 bahro tablets.

The users made ages will be right there too! so we have the best of both worlds persay.

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