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 Post subject: MORE lake lighting?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:22 am 
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Cyan said they weren't adding any new content to MORE, but I wonder if they will do little things that were rumored to be in beta testing...aka the lake being lit up. I think it would be neat if they would light up the lake for us =]

I also heard that the lake was also based on a real number of pellets that needed to be dropped, I wonder if we can still work on getting to that number if thats what needs to be done. I know that followed a story line and they aren't doing it anymore, but I still think we deserve a little something =]

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 7:35 am 
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I have a feeling that the number of turds needed to be dropped was somewhat unknown (even to Cyan probably)... I also remember something about consistency and not quantity of turds being the key.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:01 am 
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I agree on the idea of Cyan lightening up the lake. We put REALLY much effort into it, and month after month we produced thousands of pellets and monitored the lake analyzer while it was still there. This should not cause too much work from Cyan's side - and the joy of seeing the fruits of the effort will be tremendous. Such smaller things and other details will increase th joy of exploring the cavern. As mark says, we deserve a little something, if possible :-) Then I will gladly assist on doing the rest (user ages).

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:22 pm 
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astro wrote:
We put REALLY much effort into it, and month after month we produced thousands of pellets.

Some of us did, yes, but not everyone, and I'm beginning to believe (fear) that the "threshold" they were looking for was a certain percentage of explorers working together towards the common cause. Perhaps the "puzzle" with the lake lighting was to convince the majority of players that their actions or inactions really would make a difference. Maybe the time we spent dropping extra pellets could have been better spent talking to others and encouraging them to participate.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 3:43 pm 
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The problem simply could have been a technical issue and/or manpower issue. To properly light the lake, wouldn't all the lighting effects in the Ae'gura model have to be updated and adjusted to look right? Unless there is a simple light level variable that can be adjusted, each area that produces light would have to have the value adjusted. I believe I once read this was done in a shard by adjusting the overall lighting level in the entire Cavern (like cranking up the gamma in your video card) but I'm not sure how well it turned out as I was never on the shards.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 4:51 pm 
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johnsojc wrote:
The problem simply could have been a technical issue

This has been suggested before, but I find it very hard to even consider that possibility. To me, it's the same as suggesting they'd release an age before they'd worked out the solution to the puzzle in that age.

I believe the idea (and the mechanisms) for lighting the lake were there from the beginning just like calibrating the Great Zero - both were to be community projects that required the majority of the players to participate. But, with all the stops and starts of Uru and the explanations about why the Great Zero needed to be re-calibrated again and again which lost a lot of the sense of immersion, leaving a lot of people jaded and cynical, I think Cyan hesitated to give away the lake lighting until they knew Uru was secure. Which it wasn't. :wink: So, now that we appear to be going into the final incarnation of Uru, maybe we will finally get to light the lake. :D

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:26 pm 
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We can second guess about whether Cyan was unwilling or unable to increase the lighting in the Cavern all we want. The simple indication that there were problems in the code we evidenced by the "R2D2" light meter on the dock that never worked and the GZ calibration scale that never got above 1/8th of the way up. I know that Cyan had the total count of pellets dropped because it used to display the total in the logs until Cyan turned off logging in the client. There was a specific callback from the server that wrote that total on everyone's computer. It should have been simple enough to update the light meter from what percentage of the target value was reached. Why it didn't happen was never explained. The only fact we have is that it did not happen.

The worst part of it is we will most likely start out with a vault wipe and the pellet count will start out at zero again :( .


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 Post subject: Re: MORE lake lighting?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 7:02 pm 
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mark1221 wrote:
Cyan said they weren't adding any new content to MORE, but I wonder if they will do little things that were rumored to be in beta testing...aka the lake being lit up. I think it would be neat if they would light up the lake for us =]

I also heard that the lake was also based on a real number of pellets that needed to be dropped, I wonder if we can still work on getting to that number if thats what needs to be done. I know that followed a story line and they aren't doing it anymore, but I still think we deserve a little something =]



Not to be nit-picky, But I think putting the game back online is MORE than we "deserve" I am thankful to Cyan for making THAT a possibility!


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 Post subject: Re: MORE lake lighting?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 5:35 am 
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Mystdee wrote:
mark1221 wrote:
Cyan said they weren't adding any new content to MORE, but I wonder if they will do little things that were rumored to be in beta testing...aka the lake being lit up. I think it would be neat if they would light up the lake for us =]

I also heard that the lake was also based on a real number of pellets that needed to be dropped, I wonder if we can still work on getting to that number if thats what needs to be done. I know that followed a story line and they aren't doing it anymore, but I still think we deserve a little something =]



Not to be nit-picky, But I think putting the game back online is MORE than we "deserve" I am thankful to Cyan for making THAT a possibility!


eh that was a bit nit-picky though, i am so happy its coming back but hey let it come back in style!

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 7:42 am 
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How about just letting it come back and be what it is today...like SL or AW...(Just let it be a glorified chat-room for awhile, until things get sorted out)....After that, we can nit-pick it to death...AGAIN!!!!!

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 Post subject: Re: MORE lake lighting?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 3:08 pm 
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mark1221 wrote:
Mystdee wrote:
mark1221 wrote:
Cyan said they weren't adding any new content to MORE, but I wonder if they will do little things that were rumored to be in beta testing...aka the lake being lit up. I think it would be neat if they would light up the lake for us =]

I also heard that the lake was also based on a real number of pellets that needed to be dropped, I wonder if we can still work on getting to that number if thats what needs to be done. I know that followed a story line and they aren't doing it anymore, but I still think we deserve a little something =]



Not to be nit-picky, But I think putting the game back online is MORE than we "deserve" I am thankful to Cyan for making THAT a possibility!


eh that was a bit nit-picky though, i am so happy its coming back but hey let it come back in style!



Eventually, I hope that things will be new and improved, and sparkling with "style" (as we all do), However, Cyan has made it very clear. . . . that hope, is residing somewhere in the distant future, I don't expect, or feel we "deserve" anything until they are ready and able to give it. There is not likely any other Game developer out there that would give as much as Cyan has given us, and wouldn't it be nice if we could just say thank you, and enjoy it without expecting things they have said can't happen just now?


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 10:06 pm 
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Quote:
I also heard that the lake was also based on a real number of pellets that needed to be dropped, I wonder if we can still work on getting to that number if thats what needs to be done.


I was starting to wonder when the question of pellets would pop up.

It was a good idea to have a long term project, get people involved and throw in a little competition and give explorers something to so between episodes and whatever.

Maybe it would be nice to turn up in the Cavern in MORE and see a bright new glowing sparkly lake and think "we did that".

BUT this whole pellet thing was a complete and total waste of time and effort. It achieved nothing. No results or progress was ever reported anywhere. The whole thing was mishandled from the start and by the end, I was beginning to think we were being led up a garden path with it all. If someone from the DRC wants me to dump pellets (anyone remember those stupid Kimail graphs?), then the minimum I expect is some form of feedback and progress - because if there IS no progress, then WHY are we doing it?

I started with the best of enthusiam and was dropping about 5 loads a day at one point, then that washing machine thingy appeared - then disappeared due to some bug and that was it. Nothing. Zip. Nada. Ziltch. With the total lack of response, my pellets tailed off and I was only dropping when boredom got the better of me, or when I needed them in Anhonney.

It amazed me there were people going round trying to get people to drop *after* Greydragon came in and gave everyone the bad news on MOUL and people were dropping right up to shutdown.

It would be nice to see the Lake lit up, but if we are dropping again in MORE, then before I drop a single one, I will want an assurance that this whole thing is "real", worthwhile and actually achieveing something. Saying that, with no Cyan content in MORE, it isn't going to happen and I will bet the Lake will be exactly how it was left.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 10:38 pm 
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I seem to recall GreyDragon saying that the lake-lighting project and the Dalek (before it was removed) actually were not working as planned, much like the GZ. The GZ was supposed to calibrate in real-time, and when it didn't work, they just started bumping it up manually every episode until one day it was magically calibrated. I don't even think they were doing that with the Lake, because after months of relatively consistent pellet-dropping, we didn't see any difference.

Quite honestly, even if it's not working, it would be nice if they just bumped up the overall light-level on the lake every month based on pellet drop consistency... And as for the whole "technical issue" argument, I don't buy that for a moment, because during Season 1 people were running all over the place with KI-lights, and Ae'gura's textures responded to variable lighting just fine.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 10:47 pm 
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Ghame wrote:
I was starting to wonder when the question of pellets would pop up.

You have missed some extensive posts on the subject.

Ghame wrote:
No results or progress was ever reported anywhere.

Oh, really? By what basis do you make that claim?

I think you have not done your due diligence.

Calam wrote:
I seem to recall ... that ... the Dalek (before it was removed) actually [was] not working as planned, much like the GZ.

That part is exactly right. It was removed because it did not work as expected (i.e. technical issue). And Cyan would not have wanted to repeat the mistakes of the GZ. People insisted that Cyan not cheat the game like what happened to the GZ. Now some people insist that Cyan should cheat the game by Lighting the Cavern as soon as possible, regardless of what the design might have been. It's a bit fickle, no?

There also seems to be some Expectation Inflation. Cyan has not promised any new content in MORE other than what we make for ourselves when UCC becomes available.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:42 am 
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Let us have our opinions JW! Fact is that many users put much effort in the pellet projects, even with competitions and record attempts. But it all ended up with nothing, and no response from Cyan - they just let the lake lightening project die in silence. I do think we have that one owing to us as we were promised a result over time.

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