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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 8:56 am 
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The vault is suspended in a fantastically deep well. We are too far down to see the sky and we're to far up to see the bottom.

Perhaps Kadish himself designed the Age this way so that he could have a second vault above or below the original but out of sight. He planned on making them identical, but the folks constructing the second vault made the doors different. Whether this was intentional or accidental doesn't matter - it does however, totally destroy Yeesha's claim to be able to travel in time.

Basically, she's faking it. But why? Just to impress us? To convince herself that she is the Grower as Kadish did with Ahnonay?

To me, Yeesha looks older in Uru than she did in Myst 5. Perhaps she's just ever so slightly bonkers! :D

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 8:59 am 
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It does make sense what you're saying... Remember how Aitrus explains Ages to Ti'ana. He also says that an Age can be in the past, present or future. For all we know Teledahn as we see it at the present was actually Teledahn how it was some centuries ago. ;P It could be... not that it would matter anyway. It's a bit like how we see stars from Earth. We see the light those stars emitted some thousands of years ago. What we see at the present is actually something from the past. The same can be the case with Ages.

However, I do think how Yeesha linked to the other instance vault is still special. I mean, it would have been hard for the D'ni to link to a specific time instance they wanted. They could link to another instance of an Age, that looked similar like the original Age, only by changing things in the descriptive book or copying all contents from the descriptive book. Then they would link to a similar Age, and that Age could be the same Age in a different time. (little BoT spoiler: Think of when Atrus links to that Age after Gehn changed the descriptive book) However, I don't think Yeesha modified the original Descriptive Book for an experiment, and I don't think someone as proud as Yeesha would copy an entire Descriptive Book (how long would that take?!). And we know Yeesha can link at will. So this leads to me the belief that Yeesha linked at once to the specific instance they wanted at will. She wanted a vault that looked like this and that some x years ago, and voila, she got it. That's still amazing I think.

By the way, I don't think that that you can talk with people in another vault is for technical reasons. I think it was done with reason. It isn't how the other D'ni linked to the past or future (without knowing as described above). It's something more strange and magical... Also if it's a past/future version of the vault, I think you are still in the present yourself. Think of the light of those stars we see. The light is from the past, but we see it in the present. So I think you're viewing a past state while you're in the present.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 10:34 am 
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MatzeEdend wrote:
Events in space/time are not set until they are precieved (Shrodigger's cat... man I hope that's how the guy's name is spelled :P).


Schrödinger's Cat

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 4:35 pm 
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Tai'lahr wrote:
MatzeEdend wrote:
Events in space/time are not set until they are precieved (Shrodigger's cat... man I hope that's how the guy's name is spelled :P).


Schrödinger's Cat


Thank you. I was too lazy to look it up myself.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 7:52 pm 
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Tai'lahr wrote:
Schrödinger's Cat
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 9:04 pm 
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There is no reason to believe there are "two" vaults.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 9:34 pm 
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If that were true there would be no discussion.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 9:54 pm 
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Calam wrote:
There is no reason to believe there are "two" vaults.


Well, technically there are an infinite number of vaults, but I'm just nit picking :P

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 10:18 am 
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MatzeEdend wrote:
Well, technically there are an infinite number of vaults, but I'm just nit picking :P


Well, technically it's not mathematically infinite but just a really big number. ;)

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 1:54 pm 
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Ian Atrus wrote:
Well, technically it's not mathematically infinite but just a really big number. ;)

Especially if, after some testing, you would have to rule out some "possibilties" as "impossibilities"
:lol: :wink: :lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 5:21 pm 
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JWPlatt wrote:
If that were true there would be no discussion.


I'm sorry, I didn't say that right: there is no reason to believe there are two vaults in the same instance.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 7:36 pm 
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Artic_Wagon wrote:
Ian Atrus wrote:
Well, technically it's not mathematically infinite but just a really big number. ;)

Especially if, after some testing, you would have to rule out some "possibilties" as "impossibilities"
:lol: :wink: :lol:



... killjoys :lol:

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 10:29 pm 
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Infinite - some cases = still infinite.

I'm not really up on my string theory or math, but I think that there should be infinite possible permutations of Kadish's vault. Even if you had an infinite number of impossible combinations (I don't know what we mean here - there will be Vaults that are crazy, Vaults, that have two dead Kadishes on the floor, vaults with radishes, vaults that aren't there, vaults that are the cores of suns, or hold thousands of miniature black holes, etc.), you still have an infinite number of positive, "possible" and assumedly player-navigable vaults to potentially hop through. There also should be a vault which is a sideways version of the Counter-Strike map I played last night; in fact, an infinite number of them.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 12:57 am 
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It's not infinite numbers.

Err...


Ok, I just realized something. RAWA specifically said that the great tree has a near-infinite but still finite number of actual branches (ages). Meaning the potential of the multiverse is finite.


OR IS IT? :shock:

Ok, overly dramatic, but still. While we have a finite age set, it's also possible that each age has an infinite set of instances that are slightly different.

Which raises questions at what point is it not an instance but a new age? Does a molecule make a difference? What about a tree?



Ugh. That however is critically related to the whole question. There's a Kadish running around. Is it possible he's done it on his own many innumerable times?
And here's the bigger one. Did the D'ni Fall in EVERY instance? We KNOW there's many instances of the cavern. We've visited them. How many? How do they differ? It seems some changes from Prime are bled into instances (but not all) hence if the DRC fixes Teledahn's buckets it fixes in all of ours.. but at the same time theirs could have power on but ours stays off. And instances are seperate.
So Yeesha saved him.. or did she actually find him alive wondering and talked him out of suicide he wasn't really considering, no more? When DID she do this? Before or after the fall of that instance? Because if it's after it's a big jump. If before it's not.



Ugh. My head hurts with the potential. Instances are official, but no one's stopped to think about how vastly things go straight to madness when you also have instances of PEOPLE from the instances of the ages.


You know, THAT is why I'm convinced Yeesha is the grower because she can select instances back in time. But not THE grower, because Watson is one. And likely Kadish is another, after he was shown some truths by Yeesha. Maybe it takes a grower to grow a grower. Or something.
Meaning the Stranger is a grower? :shock: Well, it would explain why Dr. Watson never appeared to age, and it means he's likely the same Stranger the whole way from the 1800s and on.



I'm rambling. But I hope my good questions aren't buried under it.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 1:13 am 
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Maybe RAWA fails at string theory?

And anyway I would think much smaller than the scale of molecules and trees, what about photons and subatomic particles? The answer should be yes, going off observation's effects on particles (i.e. waveform collapse) and the like.

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Ugh. My head hurts with the potential.

If you want to hurt your head, think over the possibility that there was no origin to the universe and that eternity (if time even existed, which it probably shouldn't) would be comprised of nothing at all.

Uru is tied in just enough with SCIENCE!!1 to impress people, but its real origins are in religion.


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