Calling for an all guilds meeting (POSTPONED)

Nalates · **Posted:** Wed Dec 17, 2008 7:59 am

There is a post by Top Gun that brings up a new issue I had not thought of, others probably did, it deals with the problem of technical code changes, feature additions and bug fixes.

Thread reference

Quote:

Thanks Top Gun!

This has also been on our minds very much also. We don't want to just dump the source out there. But have a growing and moving source code set with a main branch that is golden and sub branches for experiments or specialties. This needs good organization and lots of good help. One of the open source repositories that interest me is LaunchPad because it has strong collaborative services with teams with varying degrees of responsibilities. I would be curious to what you thought.

Thanks,
Chogon

I think his post is worth a read, especially since Chogon commented on it. I have not seen anyone else bring up the problem of code forks. Duh moment for me. Of course we are going to have them. Dealing with them… I think will most likely be a guild task.

Dot, is right that now is too early to be making decisions on what we will do. But, it is NOT too early to be dreaming and thinking of what we would like to accomplish. So, guilds can be thinking and selecting a direction. While I think a statement of intent would help in many ways… that is each guild’s choice.

There is also a movement to have shards that are PURE CANNON… The problem I see with that is twofold. One, just what is ‘pure cannon’? Is that a static MO:UL shard with no new ages or content? Is that a shard with only Cyan approved additions? When is it Cyan will have time or manpower to approve additions? I may well misunderstand what people mean by pure cannon. But I doubt we can have what that conjures up in my mind.

Age writers have created several new ages or at least places. I am sure those writers would like to have their work in game. I think that will mean extended cannon. The FACL process was to protect the Cyan framework and story frame but allow additions. So, MO:RE would have been an extended cannon version of the game. That is what I suspect GoW and GoMa are thinking now. It is what I would like to see.

Since many in the GoW and GoMa are doing the most work to create new ages and story… I think they have more say than those of us sitting on the side lines. In the GoC the people with the most say were those doing the most work and contributing the most.[/quote]

Dot · **Joined:** Fri Jan 12, 2007 11:52 am **Posts:** 1015

Re Top Gun's and Chogon's posts: Some of the issues raised in that thread are also being thought about by others in the wider community, not just those in particular guilds.

My feeling is that, in the interest of making this a truly open project, it would be good to work across the WHOLE community here, so that we don't lose the expertise and skills available -- not everyone belongs to a guild, nor do they want to. Perhaps this part of the project would be a good one to develop over on the OpenUru forum to facilitate inter-group-or-no-group working.

On the question of story and 'canon', don't forget the key resource of the GoA. GoMa is very happy to work with the GoA, the GoW and Cyan -- and with individual writers or independent teams -- on this aspect.

The list of questions for Cyan that Lynnutte is putting together includes this one from Rusty Russell:

Rusty_Russell wrote:

Quote:

Also, we may (or may not) be subject to RAWA's guidelines for new content, or other systems (FCALs etc)..

Does FCAL (Cyan approval) still apply for new content?

Once we have this key question answered, we can build on from there. But assuming one way or the other prematurely is going to alienate sections of the community (either way!).

I'm sorry if I'm sounding like a wet blanket here. But I do want this process to be a success, and that needs more time, dreaming, thinking, listening, researching, understanding, planning, implementing. This is going to be a massive undertaking that will demand considerable amounts of time, effort and money. We really can't afford to waste resources by rushing into premature decisions with insufficient information, understanding or support from the wider community.

Lynnutte · **Posted:** Wed Dec 17, 2008 1:55 pm

Meeting postponed until after the New Year and more word from Cyan.

Nalates · **Posted:** Wed Dec 17, 2008 6:49 pm

Probaly a good idea Lynnutte.

Remember the Community Meeting happening today, which is unrelated the guild meeting this thread is about.

See: UO Thread

It is at noon today and transcripts will be available at some point. I think it will show a wide range of thinking and people's various planned directions. Many of the questions there and the answers are likely to relate to the future Inter-Guild meeting.

Marten · **Posted:** Wed Dec 17, 2008 7:17 pm

Nalates wrote:

It is at noon Pacific Time today ...

Fixed.

Nalates · **Posted:** Wed Dec 17, 2008 7:22 pm

Thanks Marten. I goofed and forgot to be clear.

For those that are curious what the guilds are thinking, check this thread by the GoW: Planning

The thread is along my idea of guilds deciding where they want to go and would like to do. It is too early to be definite and/or make permanent decisions. More wish list thinking.

CrisGer · **Posted:** Wed Dec 17, 2008 10:01 pm

it is great to keep the Guilds at the fore front of things, and I am glad to see that.

The meeting in Second Life was not posted about on MOUL community forum sadly so many did noit know abouit it who might have been interessted in the irc chat i am glad ppl enjoy Second LIfe but it is not MOUL ......and i am glad we will have the cavern back soon. That is the best place to talk things over and i tend to think we can wait for some discussions until the Cavern reopens.

cheers and hope it went well.

Nalates · **Posted:** Wed Dec 17, 2008 10:27 pm

Chat log and pics up here: UO Thread Scroll down.

Oh Cris it was posted... you likely did not see it because a mod moved it as it was not really Uru community related. :roll:

5THESTRANGER5 · **Posted:** Thu Dec 18, 2008 1:59 am

Nalates - When I stated that we should have a couple "pure cannon" shards, I simply meant that there should be a base of the original UL storyline on a set server(s), and that base should always be made available to the newly gathered. That way, we keep the original storyline in the forefront for the newbies as we press forward with the new Ages, stories, and areas. I don't want to see anyone confused or left unsatisfied by the addition of off-based content. However, I think that if we can find a way to marry these new Ages with cannon, the outcome would prove more satisfying to all, and would give a true feel of continuation, rather than improvisation.

As an active storyline creator within the GoW, I can surely say that we have dreamed of and want these new additions; MORE would have most likely been a mixture of both "pure cannon"(and by that I mean the RAWA and Cyan created storyline) and the new Ages being conceived by the GoW. Since the idea here is an open source UL, I say bring it on. However, I do think that over time, many will see that the seam created by the division of cannon storyline and the new additions will be all too clear. For many explorers, the very heart of the UL journey is the cannon storyline, however choppy it may be, and I am sure that the newly gathered will notice this difference quickly enough.

The only concern that I have at this point is how all this might tie together story wise. I feel that, in order for it to work and make sense, we must not veer too terribly far from what we have come to know about the history, Art, and Ages of the D'ni. Change isn't always good, so we shall see. I do have high hopes for the new Ages; I just don't want to see an Age that in any way converts or distorts "cannon" UL or the ideas and concepts behind original UL gameplay. What I would like to see is a setup where cannon rules, but we have many choices. If an explorer wants to take the original UL journey, then the new Ages should be optional, however I still feel as if they should somehow co-mix with what we have already been exposed to if they are to be included in the game. Otherwise, we wouldn't be continuing UL, but creating a completely and vastly different experience, not unlike SL. As badly as I would love to link from the Nexus to my summer abode in Middle Earth, it just wouldn't fit. Likewise, linking to Ages where the only thing to do is turn this or push that would be ineffective, no matter how great they look. We need new and interactive stories, that at least blend somehow with what we have seen, if these new Ages are to hold any ground next to the "pure cannon" of UL. A good example of one of these new Ages that incorporates a good and viable storyline that could very well be made to fit with cannon is Sonavio. :idea:

Cyan has clearly stated that they will not be able to contribute any new content right away, so we can guess that it will be up to us to fill in the new areas as we see fit. Let's keep on track as we delve into these new Ages; the possibilities are endless, but the impossibilities are staggering. I am positive that if we allow the "cannon" UL story to live within these new Ages, the idea of an open source UL can work for us all.

Shorah,

Stranger

Nalates · **Posted:** Thu Dec 18, 2008 2:48 pm

5THESTRANGER5, I think we have some different ideas but are going for the same thing.

I think we both think of pure canon as you describe it, Cyan content and storyline. The MO:RE mixture is what I label extended canon. I expect a GoW shard, if they do decide to run their own shard, to be extended canon to allow writers such as you to add story and age creators to add new ages.

I’m not at all sure new players would be able to tell canon from extended canon. If it is done well then it won’t matter. In the case where ‘extended’ material distorts canon, it might only be confusing and not distinct, which I think is a serious problem. I agree that distorting canon is a negative and will detract from the story. I was confused enough when I came online in 03 and people were talking about finding the Cavern in New Mexico. I had no way to know what an ARG was or what was IC or OOC story much less what was canon or not. So, several ideas have been presented for how new material may be presented so players have chance of recognizing which is which.

I think a united guild shard would be a place where there can be a controlled shard with a more democratically controlled storyline. The union can impose restrictions on content (meaning ages and story) allowed on THEIR SERVER.

The problem with providing a ‘couple’ of pure canon shards is that each will have a real money cost. As yet we do not know what is required to run a shard. Will one shard with a complete universe run on a home computer and allow 4 to 8 players maybe 16? Or does it require a separate logon server and database, a vault (game state) server, and a separate asset server (has the files describing ages, cones, etc)? Can one fan run one and another fan another? Can one fan host one age and another fan another age? We don’t know, yet. I have not seen anyone project the bandwidth costs or even size the demand. That could be a significant cost. What we want and what we can have may be an economic and performance issue. So, until we have more answers in January, we don’t know what we can have or afford.

Such questions are being compiled in a thread here: Questions you would like to ask Cyan

5THESTRANGER5 · **Posted:** Fri Dec 19, 2008 12:43 am

Nal- Yes, it seems that we are heading in the same direction with pure and extended cannon, and I assume that many have asked the same questions. We'll be home soon; discussing the matter further would only serve to confuse, so it would probably be best to wait until we have a more concrete idea of what we will be doing(eg. server cost, shards, Cyan's role in it all, etc.). Again, thank you for your insight. See you in the Cavern soon.

Shorah,

Stranger

Nalates · **Posted:** Sat Dec 20, 2008 7:00 pm

Much of what we can decide now is being discussed here, on GoW and GoMa. While we are unclear what we can DO, many are very clear on what they WANT. Knowing the 'wants' at least gives direction.

I am convinced GoMa will run a testing server. They are talking about it here: GoMa Testing Shard

I am pretty sure GoW or an Inter-Guild coalition will run the main 'extended' content shard/server. As the discussions on a neutral forum for planning the 'extended' content shard/serve are drawing little discussion, I see the guild neutral coalition idea fading.

Artic_Wagon · **Joined:** Fri Oct 13, 2006 6:00 pm **Posts:** 4095

Nalates wrote:

...As the discussions on a neutral forum for planning the 'extended' content shard/serve are drawing little discussion, I see the guild neutral coalition idea fading.

I see this as a hard "reality check" for three possible main reasons.

1- Those who have the "knowledge" might have very different agendas.

2- Those with no technical background like me who are quite lost when reading
about those subjects.

3- Then you have the "rogues ones" who are not interrested in a "guild neutral coalition".
(re: very private shards)

All in all, I still see that our community is fragmented like the "old days".
(and maybe like some "not so old days")

Lynnutte · **Posted:** Sun Dec 21, 2008 12:24 am

Our community has always seemed to go in a million directions at once, but always with the same common goal. That is to be able to play the game. Still we seem to manage to stay together as a community. I see this as no different. Still, I do caution not to make any hard conclusions until we hear from Cyan and see what they have planned and what they suggest.

Sophia · **Joined:** Wed May 17, 2006 11:30 pm **Posts:** 1116

Nalates wrote:

As the discussions on a neutral forum for planning the 'extended' content shard/serve are drawing little discussion, I see the guild neutral coalition idea fading.

What's wrong with this place? I am not going to sign up for yet more forums... no matter how neutral they are

But... then again, I am not a true member of any guild so it doesn't really matter what I say here anyway :wink:

Calling for an all guilds meeting (POSTPONED)

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