Myst without Yeesha?

PinothyJ · **Posted:** Thu Jan 01, 2009 1:28 pm

What would have been the future of Myst if Yeesha didn't turn into a prat? While I enjoyed Uru the older version of Yeesha that's absolutely nothing like the younger version was a slap in the face for me. But I'm not here to whinge about story choices, just to speculate on where you thought the story could have gone?

Discuss…

Gondar · **Posted:** Fri Jan 02, 2009 12:23 am

*cheers*

Finally, someone who DOESN'T think Yeesha is the perfect second coming of yahvo!

My guess? Not as much different as we think, but METHODS differ. Probably no journeys, but instead something to lead us to areas and show, let us draw our own interpretations. No rambling for minutes about how corrupt the D'ni were, instead she'd lay the cards on the table and say what she thought, and what the quest does. Then give us BOTH sides. Evidence to show what the D'ni did to the bahro (evidence, not evidence of slavery itself. Teledahn's cages show the D'ni had a dark side but say nothing about the bahro). She'd also show what the bahro can do, what they did. Set it all out for us, and let us pick.

Maybe Kadish would've been freed, maybe not. I can understand her frustration at what he did, but someone thought the anti-kadish was a bad idea and ripped up the notes. At the same time, I think Watson wouldn't have had to do what he did. Yeesha, the more humble one that Atrus tried to raise, and not somewhere three ages off of sanity, would have probably managed to give the tablet back and do her whole quest. The war would have started, that was inevitable. But Yeesha's words and actions would have given her a lot more weight (I envision many of them just ignored her because she showed she couldn't be trusted.. faced with the oppertunity to set things right she *failed*) and she may have been able to defuse the situation with some careful negotiation.

Oh, and the DRC would have been anti-yeesha at the start, but she would have talked to them, not thinking they were EVIL INCARNATE but just misguided, and after talks they probably would have worked together. Much like they did in MOUL, though that was never adressed.

So, how would it turn out? Not that different, unless she REALLY did things in the background to push events we never saw. Many of the big things we saw she had no influence over, so they wouldn't have changed.. only what she did would.

I know I would have preferred the non-crazy Yeesha :wink:

PinothyJ · **Posted:** Fri Jan 02, 2009 1:49 am

But I hate the bahro as well. That whole path annoyed me. How a whole civilisation is worth NOTHING because they had slaves. Wow, sorry human civilisation, you are worth NOTHING because I can't think of a civilisation on this Earth that hasn't indulged slavery at one point.

And as for the Tablet, Myst V didn't exist. As far as I'm concerned the last Myst game was Myst IV and it was godlike. Myst V has nothing to do with what the previous four games were about. The core values and principles of those four games are barely recognisable in V let alone present at all. The whole game is a case of doing the exact same thing over and over to save a bunch of stupid meditating beast-ape-sloth things.

And then there was taking something as disciplined, as special, as highly regarded as 'the art', and turning it on it's head. It had never felt as if that was done because of the story, it always felt like it was done to make the games, or at least, the storytelling easier. I think if Cyan put an ad on a high traffic website that said "We're retconning Yeesha!!!" that the millions upon millions upon millions of people who have loved Myst in the past would return in their droves.

And just a side note, the reason I say that that ISN'T Yeesha, is because it doesn't even LOOK like Yeesha! Her body, her face, her bone structure, the way she moves and holds herself, her name is the only connection between version 1.0 and version 2.0. Stuff like that just doesn't change unless you have an appointment with mr plastic surgery. I say she killed the mild-mannered, mild natured, open minded Yeesha and then did a Gehn and went insane with D'ni possibility-ness.

ThedStranger · **Posted:** Fri Jan 02, 2009 11:07 am

Uru with no yeesha and bahro...

mmm...

fiery abyss boring.

The days of all science games are over. The game is bigger, it's more of a myst book than a game, it's an open game, and there are more stuff. I like it. I would be bored by now, if all the games were science stuff.

However, I would like to see a no-yeesha DRC choice in uru, for people like you. It would be great too. And limit yeesha a bit. The portals are too odd.

Yeesha and the bahro bring action to the story. After all, we are dealing with a dead city here. Not a lot of action, unless we get odd and strange things, to keep our mind busy. An ongoing story, like uru's, can't be all scientific. As I said, it will get boring after like 3 months.

"Hey explorers"

"Hey Watson!"

"So..."

"..."

"We.. are releasing a new age this month"

"Yeah, great! Just like... last month..."

"So..."

"..."

"Okay bye"

"Bye..."

"..."

Ed Oscuro · **Posted:** Fri Jan 02, 2009 1:11 pm

/me waves bye to The Stranger

"We're releasing a new character this month! A brassy businesswoman who doesn't know anything!"

HURRAH

Remember the speculation that GT and Cyan split ways because some IC proclamations were seen as demeaning to their partners?

Great exploration (at least the core Ages); unfortunately somewhat daft storyline (outside the core Ages which were pretty good; it was always fun to speculate whether Yeesha was a good 'un or a baddie).

^ The above is filled with 1000% factual opinions.

greendragoon · **Posted:** Fri Jan 02, 2009 1:51 pm

I think the thing that bugged me the most about Yeesha, and by extension Myst V, was how much Yeesha is nothing like Atrus. Let's face it, for the most part Atrus was a rock. You could count on Atrus to make the right decision in the end. You, as the player, trust him. In Myst V, however, Yeesha is the closest thing you have and the game runs around tring to convince you that you can't trust Yeesha. Plain and simple, Yeesha is the wrong choice. Now in Uru, we're offered Yeesha as a choice, but we're not offered a sufficient other choise, let alone the hidden third choice.

Believe it or not, I'm not really anti-Yeesha, I just like to point out these interesting points.

Whilyam · **Joined:** Tue May 09, 2006 1:04 am **Posts:** 4134

I think that D'ni Ages can be equally if not more exciting than Yeesha "enhanced" ages because of their history. I'm not sure where the stranger has been because the majority of MOUL went pretty much like he outlined. DRC comes in, releases an Age, Yeesha's put in a glowing toilet or something and we all explore, etc.

One of the problems Cyan had with their Ages is that there was (or at least appeared to be) very little history behind them (at least little that was out in the open). I think we have a chance to now have Ages with significant backstories and histories (without breaking canon). And that, for me, has the potential for far greater entertainment.

ThedStranger · **Posted:** Fri Jan 02, 2009 3:14 pm

MOUL had much better story (it could be a lot more better, of course), mostely because of yeesha and the bahros. They caused conflicts (good kind), and let us choose sides (at least in our minds, too bad we couldn't actually choose sides).

There were some not-so-good things in the story and how it was presented, but the core was good. DRC vs yeesha add tons of things to think about. That's why one of my major suggestions is ability to choose sides.

Quote:

Yeesha is nothing like Atrus.

Just like achenar (how the fiery abyss should I write his name?) is nothing like atrus. Another atrus coldn't be very interesting. I like yeesha because of the way she is acting. It seems she's sure of what she's doing, but to us she is just crazy, which kinda' shows how long she was here, ad leave you wondering what the fiery abyss happened to her for the past 100 years.

Quote:

Now in Uru, we're offered Yeesha as a choice, but we're not offered a sufficient other choise

Agreed. We need to be able to be autherized explorers, with no yeesha stuff.

However, yeesha out of the story, as a whole, would be sad.

If people want no yeesha in content, fine enough, side choosing should allow them that. But yeesha bring tons of actions and "stuff" to the story (outside of the content), that's why I think that no yeesha would be boring.

Quote:

"We're releasing a new character this month! A brassy businesswoman who doesn't know anything!"

Yep, some characters, or atleast the way they were presented, were plain stupid. Like cate. She wasn't... explained. But I'm sure there's a lot more about her... maybe we could get her journal or something, saying what she was acutally thinking about all the things (we can get it from a journey... or not. Whatever you want). Make her character dipper.

Uru is set over 100 years after myst iv revelation. I like the feeling of mystery, wondering what happened while you were gone. People found d'ni. Odd ways of linking are revealed. Something happened to yeesha.

However, as I said, yeesha and bahros should be limited, it became too odd.. Linking stones, clothes and glyphs are fine, but the portals were really strange and out-of-place.

Tweek · **Joined:** Tue May 09, 2006 12:11 am **Posts:** 2633

I'm curious how there can be Authorized Explorers.

Authorized Explorers worked back in the day when the cavern was private and there was an authority in place (The DRC) who could deem who was authorized and who was not. When the DRC opened the cavern publicly they lost that authority, D'ni stopped being about them and it became about us.

Now there is no authority in the cavern because the cavern is ours, ok so Joe Explorer could go "hey you're authorized, you, well you're not", but everyone else would just say "shut up".

There are not any authorized explorers, there are not any unauthorized explorers, there are just explorers.

Inferiority Complex · **Posted:** Fri Jan 02, 2009 4:33 pm

Gondar wrote:

Finally, someone who DOESN'T think Yeesha is the perfect second coming of yahvo!

Did you see my thread about my theory of the Kadish vaults - I'm convinced Yeesha is cheating despite the fantastic stuff people have written there.
http://www.mystonline.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=15943

ThedStranger · **Posted:** Fri Jan 02, 2009 6:50 pm

Quote:

There are not any authorized explorers, there are not any unauthorized explorers, there are just explorers.

YET. If there is a choice to choose sides, there will be sides. And I think we DO want conflicts and sides around. You can call them whatever you want, point is that here are those who take the journey, and those who doesn't.

I could never understand the hate some people develop to yeesha. So yes, she's not so...scientific. But it's 100 years after the last myst. As I said, things change. Modern people came, new linking methods revealed, yeesha changed.

Maybe it's about the thing that we have to see her cloths and doors and stuff around. That's, again, why I support side choosing. Autherized for those who don't want yeesha content, journeys for those who want yeesha content. Not very hard (well, it is. But I guess the efforts worth it).

Gondar · **Posted:** Fri Jan 02, 2009 10:40 pm

I don't hate Yeesha because she's 'unscientific'. The D'ni weren't either. The closest thing was Atrus who carefully experimented with the Art and documented his work.

What I DO hate Yeesha for is the fact that living for that long alone except for bahro twisted her up a little. More than a little really, she is quite crazy. She believed wholly in what she was doing, and in turn became a fanatic. Either you're wholly with her, or you don't understand. And don't bother asking her to explain her reasons, they're self-evident, right? Because she's the good one following truth and the rest are following the evil D'ni slavers.

Then she gets the tablet and utterly fails. It takes Watson, who she'd all but condemned as doing things wrong, to do what she couldn't. And then things go to fiery abyss and back as the Winged Ones she thought were so nice and pure turn out to fracture and go try to kill everyone and everything. By the time we got to the end of MOUL she seemed a bit.. broken. She knew she'd screwed up and was trying to fix things. She probably figured she'd free the bahro and everyone would play nicely together. I think if she'd explained things a lot more, we wouldn't have this problem. And thus she wouldn't have been a fanatic.

Course that's another what-if. I suspect I'll get to see others' interpretations on some non-Yeesha shard if we're allowed to modify Cyan ages (or fiery abyss, even if we're NOT) and I might even go take place in a fw of the continuations. Personally though I think Yeesha played her role out.. I want to see the Winged Ones themselves doing stuff directly instead of her. Maybe cloths maybe not. No instanced books, relto is a holdover from her mistake, intstead far more linking tablets and less instancing, and a little more ambiguity about motivations.

ThedStranger · **Posted:** Sat Jan 03, 2009 11:30 am

Quote:

What I DO hate Yeesha for is the fact that living for that long alone except for bahro twisted her up a little. More than a little really, she is quite crazy.

That's her character. Crazy. She makes the game interesting. As I said, another atrus would be boring. If people don't like her, they could always (COULD) change the storyline, with actions. But she's still there. I, and I suppose others, like yeesha, so erasing her for the story would be bad. It's like asking for a patch to oblivion which erases a character you don't like. The story is here- if you want to listen to yeesha or not- your choice. At least it should be. If we get side choosing (DRC without yeesha content, journey with yeesha content).

Quote:

Either you're wholly with her, or you don't understand. And don't bother asking her to explain her reasons, they're self-evident, right? Because she's the good one following truth and the rest are following the evil D'ni slavers.

Again- she's there, like it or not. With side choosing, you listen to whoever you want.

So yes, I think you get my point from all these posts. Side choosing (journey or not) IS an important thing. Very important. It should be included in the story- bot from content reasons and story reasons.

kaelisebonrai · **Joined:** Sun Jan 20, 2008 2:14 pm **Posts:** 902

The Stranger: She doesn't /have/ to be there, like it or not. If we want, Yeesha does not /have/ to be involved at all, in the New Uru.

There are plenty of rich, detailed explorer stories waiting to be told, have a look on urublogs.com for some of them, things like Whilyam's Cavern Link, Tweek's Beneath, The Third Path, Subterrean Restorations, my own Caverna Obscura (though it is not even close to the same quality of the above, I am trying.)

We do not /need/ the DRC, nor should we put words into the mouths of the DRC characters, that is Cyan's position, even if Cyan will never come back, we should not presume to put words into the mouths of the DRC, or, for that matter, Yeesha. We should use our own characters, are own designs, not Cyan's.

ThedStranger · **Posted:** Sat Jan 03, 2009 12:32 pm

Quote:

She doesn't /have/ to be there

Quote:

We do not /need/ the DRC

Yes, but they make an interesting story. No DRC would be too much magic. No yeesha would be too much science. So why not both? fixes ARE needed, of course, but erasing characters from the storyline just because we don't like how they act is not an option for me. They should stay in the storyline, and as I said, through side choosing, you choose who you want to follow- follow the DRC if you don't care about yeesha content, or follow yeesha if you don't care about DRC content.

Quote:

we should not presume to put words into the mouths of the DRC, or, for that matter, Yeesha. We should use our own characters, are own designs, not Cyan's.

Never said we should. Further more, I really support the opinion of no continuation to the official story in fans shards. I'm talking about "the real" uru, cyan's uru. Don't know if it will ever come, but I think I can talk about it.

I just don't think it's fair to say should delete yeesha and the bahro for good. If you don't want her content, okay, choose the DRC side. But she adds a lot to the story, you can ignore her in the story end, but deleting her and the bahros will be a shame.

Myst without Yeesha?

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