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PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 7:34 am 
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MustardJeep wrote:
@Nalates

First off Physx and it's SDK are free. (See below) Not all the tricks of whatever version Cyan was running may be there but the heart of the Physx library is out there and ready to be used.

http://developer.nvidia.com/object/physx_downloads.html


What’s it cost? Free and US$50k. It looks like the tools we would need are all free. That includes the game development tools and run time code. It appears that as long as one does not need to recompile the standard library it is free. I knew they had provided the source to driver makers for free. I had not seen that they had released all these tools. Thanks MJ.

The development tools are for 3DS Max and Maya. No Blender tools… which I guess is not that surprising. Tools But still a bummber.

Teams… I agree. Teams are a better way to go. There is an inherent problem with teams and the Uru community. There are no exact numbers so I could be way wrong. But that said, the personality quiz many of us took and comments by numerous fans shows a fan base that is very individualistic and tends to do things solo. Some fans just like developing the whole thing on their own. In their case they don’t really care how long it takes, it’s their hobby. The longer it takes the long they can enjoy it. Nothing wrong with that.

While many of us see the need for the fast production of ages to support MOOS, I see no incentive for age writers to form teams, unless it adds to their enjoyment of what they are doing. I estimate there are about a dozen people that might form up in to two or three teams and enjoy working together. I do somewhat base that on my experience in SL with the ECR&D. About 500 fans in SL and about a dozen in ECRD&D and another in E’der D’ni (?) that work as teams. Several of those are in both groups. Others tend to be working solo or with a friend. I sort of see the same thing happening outside SL but it is harder get a handle on numbers. But from the number of people typically in CC, posting here and OU… it seems to be similar sized groups. There are possibly a larger number that simply do not participate here… but how would we know?

@stranger… I’m not worried about the unfinished ages… I suspect many people are waiting to see what the OS releases bring. Why do a bunch of things that may have to be changed? Story development, texture improvement, stopping to learn more scripting… these are all things that would not show much visible work completed and would not necessarily have to change to work with the new tools. So, effort may just have shifted or be on temporary hold. No doubt some have lost interest. I just hope they will be invigorated when the tools come out.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 9:30 am 
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I'm saying that if I had a server, I would allow only cyan quality ages. Yes, I know I'm picky. And I know they are doing their best. And I know they are not getting money for it. I just wanna see ages cyan quality, it will be a shame that some ages will look amazing and others will look like a 3 year old child did them. I know it's hard, and that's why teams are important.

Can a single person do a cyan quality age? yes. But it will take ages. Beside eh'ko, which is yet to be released, I never saw a single age with cyan quality. There are many great ages, like fens and serena, yet non reach cyan quality, which is what I'll be so happy to see. I believe these ages were done with the help of other people, but as much as I know it has never been a real orgenized team, with many different people from all guilds working on it.

As for ages per month: here's a new idea- there could be a "test server", where writers put their ages in. It will not be really a game, one enters the servers and choose which age he wanna go. This will be a place where single writers will put the low quality prototype of the age- than they gather people of any guilds they want (they can also gather a team and make the prototype with the team, and than upload it). Anyone can enter the server, so fans ages should come pretty fast. Writers make the models, maintainers test them. Now the writer can gather other people: messengers to manage the whole community thing, greeters to test the puzzles, artists (I suppose) gather the textures and maybe making music (is there a music guild?), chartographers see if this age is help writers with the whole look of the age (concept), surveyors help putting on the textures and help with the models of the age... and so on.

It sounds like it will still take a long time to finish an age with cyan quality? it may so. But remember: everyone can enter the test server and see every change as new version are uploaded, back from the prototype.

Once an age is cyan quality (and hopefully higher :wink: ), the team can choose to release it to the "real" server. Once it's released... that's it. You get a high quality age in the real server, and you can also visit it at production. And everyone are happy.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 2:13 pm 
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The PhsyX SDK is and will be free. The licensing is only to cover support and the source code for it if you need it for some reason. (NiGHTS for the Wii has a port of PhysX from source, for example.) I can see no reason we would need to purchase a source license.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 5:31 pm 
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I just got done looking at some of the...........many options.........and Ages..............that the various guilds have produced for Uru CC All I can say is Fan-tastic if this is any indication of whats in store assuming Its maintained within a Uru styled environment with servers safe from Viruses and spywhere, your really gonna have a winner. All thanks to a series of Games created by Cyan and the Fans who have kept them alive. and actually breathed new life in to some of them

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 5:37 pm 
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Yes, I enjoyed many ages like fens, serene and and the writers niche.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 9:15 pm 
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It sounds like it will still take a long time to finish an age with cyan quality? it may so. But remember: everyone can enter the test server and see every change as new version are uploaded, back from the prototype.

Once an age is cyan quality (and hopefully higher ), the team can choose to release it to the "real" server. Once it's released... that's it. You get a high quality age in the real server, and you can also visit it at production. And everyone are happy.


This reads like a great advert for the Guild of Maintainers. :)


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 7:27 am 
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Rusty_Russell wrote:
This reads like a great advert for the Guild of Maintainers. :)

Thanks, Rusty! We're still around... Let us know what we can do to help, and we will. :)

In particular, ametist is the GM to contact for Age inspections.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 12:08 pm 
I remember an acrimonious discussion way back in the forum about whether individuals should be *allowed* to try and produce Ages. Guess which side I was on.:D

What will happen when/if the tools are finally released, I suspect, is that many people will rejig their CC Ages for online use. This will mean that there is a great deal of "new" content in the online game, but that it will be content that many people have already seen. Which is basically what happened when it was discovered that the new Uru Live had exactly the same content as the standalone game. It may be that people are already planning Ages specifically for OSMO or whatever, but by the nature of the situation they can't do any concrete work on them.

Most of the Ages that have been produced for CC are of the ooh-look variety--no story, no puzzles, just getting to grips with 3D modelling and learning how to do things. We are really still at that stage, so it should be no surprise. Some have included storylines and puzzles, but most haven't, it's true. I have said for some time that every Age should have at least a back-story to give it some interest, and been told that no, it's not necessary, so I bow to superior knowledge here... :?

One thing to bear in mind, though, is that Cyan's tools will not include a story generator. Which is to say that there's no point waiting for the release of the tools in the hope that this will see a sudden upsurge of story-based, puzzle-rich Ages. If the tools make the craft of 3D modelling a little easier than it currently is with "£$%^&* Blender, then people may have more time and energy left over to think about why their Age is here and what it is intended to say to the player...but it will still be a good long time before Ages that are in that sense "Cyan-quality" (or what some people might say should be "Cyan-quality") start to appear. (I'd love to be proved wrong on this.)

Historically, one of the things on which Uru fans have been almost unanimously in agreement is that patience would be a very good idea and could we have it NOW please or we'll go elsewhere. I think this is a lesson we still have to learn, because we will need lots of patience if we want to see "Cyan-quality" OSMO Ages.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 12:09 pm 
Sorry, posted twice. :oops:


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 4:48 pm 
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Every Artist specializes in something, some with graphic art some with words some with Mechanical ext ext. The Idea of creating an age as a collaboration sounds interesting, for instance some one who specializes in Graphic art may or may not be so good with words, or some one good with Mechanical stuff may not be so good with Graphical arts. I think some of the Best Ages Will be a collaboration of several people who specialize in one of the many field necessary to Create an age that can be admired by everyone.

From what I understand........ Cyan is just supplying us with equipment and supplies necessary to carry on the Age Creation process for Uru Live, We are the ones who supply the time and imagination. They will always have the final word on the public Uru Live but it is up to us to make this dream a reality long enough to Reestablish Uru Live as one of the best MMO's out their.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:33 am 
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I would like to see age creation groups- groups of people working together on an age, rather than a single writer.


It would seem a natural development for explorers to eventually get together on creating Ages. Age project to form teams around Story, Puzzles, Music, Remdering, Code, etc... But how to ensure control over one's Age and Story? How will the one who's vision for the initial Age maintain control of the content and out come? Creative people often have creative tempers and egos. How or what would keep any or a few in a group effort from going off with parts of the originators Age and making it into their own version? I am looking for what the protocals or blueprint for how that will be done. Anyone know? Cyan legal going to handle that?


Last edited by Jahmen on Mon Apr 06, 2009 12:37 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:37 am 
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Sorry about double post. Glitch.


Last edited by Jahmen on Wed Apr 01, 2009 12:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:06 am 
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I hope that agreements between the group members will limit them. I don't want a guild police because it's not the guilds' intentions. It woks like that: the group make an agreement, make the age, put it on the public test server and update it again and again, and than the server owner/s decides if the quality is high enough and if he wants this age in his server.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:40 am 
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Hey! Don't say bad things about the fan ages. Often it is one person working hobby time doing quite fast with free tools (pause for breath) what would have been done by teams of designers and modellers during longer periods of time. The fan ages are impressive in many ways.
I believe that released fan ages should be allowed to be works in progress. Wheras an official release has to be very close to perfect.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 12:38 pm 
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Shouldn't groups make ages faster? I mean, with groups you don't have to do everything on your own. And, you get a better looking/acting age.

I know fans ages are good. They are really fun and all. But seeing sich large differences between us and cyan is annoying. It makes sense- cyan are skilled developers and we are... not. But there is another thing- they are a group. And we are not. So why won't we make groups too? nothing huge, pick several members of whatever guilds, and start with it. Our ages are not as complicated as cyan's (gameplay talking) so it shouldn't take a lot of time.

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