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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 11:12 am 
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 7:41 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 2:19 am 
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 12:38 pm 
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 1:14 pm 
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 9:51 pm 


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:43 pm 
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 7:26 am 


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 8:08 pm 
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 9:35 pm 
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 2:24 am 
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 11:45 am 
I still think we're talking about two different things, and therefore it makes sense and avoids confusion to use two different words...but this is also not the place for an endless semantic quibble, so I'll leave it at that.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 8:15 am 
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 1:50 pm 
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I realize that the below statement could be interpreted as an attempt lecture someone. It is not. This should be taken as a serious attempt to analyze human behavior and it is not directed at an individual group or person. In college, Psychology was one of my favorite subjects. :)

Pride is a mental state. A state in which we believe that ourselves or something we love has a certain state of value. So far no infraction has occurred. Now someone or something comes along and challenges that predefined state, hurt, fear, and anger are the result. Let's face it, we all suffer from it. We all want to say we're better than that and can shrug it off, but when our ego (defined as our own mental concept of ourselves, whatever that concept is) has been dented, these emotions are the result.

Now here's where the problems start. The person faced with these emotions has a number of choices of how to deal with these emotions. Will they lash out at the source of their pain? Will they fear it? Or will they try and not let these emotions control them? From here it's easy to see where such negative emotions such as xenophobia and hatred come from.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 1:06 am 
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I would suggest that we are seeing something a little more epic than the Christian pride as chief of the seven deadly sins. The ancient Greeks gave us the concept of hubris, which is usually translated as overweening pride. The interesting thing about hubris is that it isn't a sin. Villains aren't the only people to have it. In fact, it is often the tragic flaw in the character of a hero that brings him/her to fate. The example often cited in Greek literature is Oedipus Rex - Oedipus the King.When his city was stricken by disease, he asked the oracle how to cure it. He was told that the previous king's murderer had not been punished. He decreed that no stone be left unturned to bring the murderer to justice. His local prophet warned him that this would not be a good course for him to take, but Oedipus refused. He could not back down from a course he had set, so sure was he that he could bring relief to his people. Needless to say, he was the killer - on his way to this city, he had a conflict with another band of travellers who attacked him. Yeah. Guess who.Several plot twists later, Oedipus had blinded himself and sent himself into exile - because his hubris would not let him heed the warning given to him.

How does this apply to the D'ni people? Well, Veovis didn't start out as an evil doer. His zealous love for his culture combined with a certain consciousness of his social status led him into hubris - overweening pride (or arrogance or conceit) that would not let him see virtue in alternative ways of action. His reaction to Ti'ana then became personal when she "took" Aitrus from him - his personal sense of security was threatened by the rift with a friend. This combined with the anger of hubris - someone of Veovis's station had courted a friendship only to see this spurned for an "inferior!" I feel that this was the point at which his hubris lead his zeal to become active aggression. Other characters in the drama, of course, had their parts to play as well, but I think Veovis was the embodiment of pride in the Greek sense of hubris - the tragic flaw that led a once good man to his own destruction.

Just my thoughts - and I could be mistaken.

Z.V. Peyronne (missing The Cavern)


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