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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 4:23 pm 
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I often wondered why (during the Myst on line Resurrection experiment) they only wanted to break even, I don't think any one would have complained if they turned a profit from it. Breaking even did not make sense considering their financial status.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 5:06 pm 
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Zardoz wrote:
The problem is not that we expect updates or occasionally ask for them, it's that Cyan seems to respond only when we yell long and loud enough. Any parent with a two year old will tell you this is a bad business model.

Or we yell long and loud all the time and Cyan responds on their own schedule anyway.

And so the child perceives of the coincidence that every so often, it works. ;)

Karkadann wrote:
I often wondered why (during the Myst on line Resurrection experiment) they only wanted to break even, I don't think any one would have complained if they turned a profit from it. Breaking even did not make sense considering their financial status.

It did make sense if you consider that expectations would rise exponentially as a function of profit and the risk of being seen as a full-scale relaunch.

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Last edited by JWPlatt on Mon Jun 15, 2009 5:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 5:09 pm 
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Whilyam wrote:

Britcom said there were "real people" at Cyan (as if there are fake people elsewhere?). But the point is there are real people everywhere, and no one gives them a break because of it. When Exxon Mobil sets fire to an island of seals, or Microsoft's latest gizmo or piece of software fails no one defends them by playing the sympathy card. And the truth is, no one's giving Cyan a break for not communicating. Whether now or in the future, this is going to have some kind of impact. Uru Live had problems and then Greydragon wasn't able to come around. He was busy/Cyan was busy/etc. He's now unemployed as far as I know and the game he represented is offline. There are flashing red signs saying "DANGER: BRIDGE OUT" and Cyan seems to not be noticing.
.


You can hardly equate Exxon Valdez with MORE, one was an ecological disaster, MORE is a yet to be released video game. And dragging out Greydragon's circumstances, that was very low.

I stand by my sense of entitlement observation - I was talking about an open source, free to the community video game. How this equates to the Exxon Valdez disaster, or delving into what you "know" about Greydragon, to justify your impatience, is not a proportional response to frustration regarding official communication about a video game.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 5:46 pm 
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Whilyam wrote:
Uru Live had problems and then Greydragon wasn't able to come around. He was busy/Cyan was busy/etc. He's now unemployed as far as I know and the game he represented is offline. There are flashing red signs saying "DANGER: BRIDGE OUT" and Cyan seems to not be noticing.


GD may well have truly been busy, no need to assume otherwise, and just because he's no longer at Cyan doesn't mean he's unemployed . . . he's an intelligent young man, with much to offer, and according to what I have read in his blogs, is doing well, and has his head on straight and his life in order.


Last edited by Mystdee on Mon Jun 15, 2009 7:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:37 pm 
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I don't equate asking for status to yelling, being a child, or having a sense of entitlement. Cyan made an announcement about a product. The fact that the product is free is wonderful, great, spectacular - but that doesn't give you a pass. What you do is communicate about your products, even if you are a little game development company. I'm having a little trouble understanding how Cyan is different from all the other companies out there, game development companies, software development companies, companies in trouble, companies struggling. As far as I can tell, it's still a product - still listed on the main page of this forum, still a link to it from the Cyanworlds page.

Personally, I think that all the interest is a golden opportunity. I'd think you'd want to nurture it, thinking long term, thinking how to retain your customers so that they might buy future products. The goes along with the community management thing, which Zardoz spoke about. Yes, agreed, you wouldn't want to spend a lot of money on OpenSource Uru, but a little, in terms of communication and perhaps organizing your volunteer ex-employees to produce the product. If you can't do anything right now to produce OpenSource Uru, you could free up a little bit of someone's time to communicate. I'm not Cyan, but to me, that seems right. No company stays in business by only doing things that give them a payback right now.

Good discussion.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:50 pm 
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Spot on mszv.

Thank you and others for some balance in this DoM thread. :wink:


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 8:55 pm 
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Also. No news has, in the past, invariably been followed by bad news/sad announcements. The frustration is therefore somewhat called for.
You could also ask us all to go get ourselves lives of our own, in stead of knocking on this door, but you really don't want that, do you?
(directed at anyone who thinks it is wrong even to voice impatience.)

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 10:01 pm 
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This whole thing of keeping the community guessing or danging the carrot as I like to call it, is in part stringing the customers along and they know they can get away with it. They have all along with this product. I'm not saying it's right and it does indeed suck. If they made an announcement that OpenUru was a very long long way off, don't expect it this year, I think alot of people will finally give up except for the very few and I think Cyan knows this. By keeping quite and/or ignoring us, people are around talking about it; in my opinion it is right where they want us.

Again, this is the same old, same old for this game. All we heard towards the end of Season 1, we are negotiating don't worry, looong silence, then WHAMO Uru Live closed. As far as I am concerned, they had known about it for awhile no matter what anyone says. Now we get an announcement OpenUru - it's still in the works, schedule is off a bit don't know how long. Blame it on what you will: economy, budget, staff, time etc. I understand they are a company that wants to survive and make money, that makes sence, but I agree it is wrong to keep promising something then delaying and keeping silent. I know in my line of work that would not go over too well with my customers. If it is not going to happen anytime soon, I agree we sould be informed. From my preception of seeing this website and being directed here from Cyan Worlds website, I would think/thought it was going to be a sooner than later if at all thing myself.

As much as I love Uru Live and the concept of OpenUru, I personally don't think it is a reasonable expectation for myself anyore that it will ever see the light of day. I gave up months ago and my posts on here have been few and far between. I have reserved myself to be content with what the guild of writers are doing and I think that is the best it will get. I have other gaming systems and there are infact some great not too violent or non-violent games out there that spark my interests.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 11:04 pm 
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Zardoz wrote:
As for Cyan being sane, I would say it is fairly insane to devote any time whatsoever to a venture that produces no income in a time of deep financial distress. There is no product in Cyan's pipeline, at least that I am aware of, that I intend to buy. Therefore, I am not one of their customers and I don't see that they've flunked Business 101. Rather, I am a member of a community that has grown up around their previous (and perhaps future) business, and so I am part of their social capital. It's Community Relations 101 that they're flunking.

Perhaps it is all semantics, but I see what you call Community Relations 101 in the same spirit as Business 101. For the reason that we are potential customers and many are past customers. Similar to how a store owner will treat a person who is interested in what he sells, and how he will treat someone who has already bought from him. I see those as part of business. Keeping your old customers and engaging new customers.

Dr Britcom Mom wrote:
You can hardly equate Exxon Valdez with MORE, one was an ecological disaster, MORE is a yet to be released video game. And dragging out Greydragon's circumstances, that was very low.

I stand by my sense of entitlement observation - I was talking about an open source, free to the community video game. How this equates to the Exxon Valdez disaster, or delving into what you "know" about Greydragon, to justify your impatience, is not a proportional response to frustration regarding official communication about a video game.

Let me break this down some more as my original meaning is lost on you. Whether voluntarily or not, I don't know. First off, I didn't equate Cyan's issues with the wreck ofthe Exxon Valdez. I equated it with a fictional event in which Exxon Mobil set fire to baby seals. This was purely to illustrate the point of a company messing up and people not taking sympathy with them because their employees are human.

As for GD...
Mystdee wrote:
GD may well have truly been busy, no need to assume otherwise, and just because he's no longer at Cyan doesn't mean he's unemployed . . . he's an intelligent young man, with much to offer, and according to what I have read in his blogs, is doing well, and has his head on straight and his life in order.


This is certainly possible. My point was to look at the larger implications. GD was, and I say this as kindly as I can, "relieved" of his post at Cyan. That is why we have Chogon as Cyan's Community Manager (among a long list of other things.

Let me clear up any slight I may have done to GD. I respect GD and truly wish him the best. My point, again, was to show that, regardless of how human a company's employees are, there are repercussions for a lack of communication. Again, because of a lack of confidence leading to a lackluster community. It's good to hear GD has been doing well.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 11:41 pm 
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Hi all,

Sorry for the long time in between updates. The silence was not by design or by any dark undertones. Sadly, there is not much to report. I am *still* waiting for a particular ex-Cyan person to send me code changes that only he can make. I know that sounds odd but unfortunately it is the truth and until I have those changes the open source can't proceed. I know that he has been heavily involved in a major release of the product he is working on, so I understand (a little bit).
After that is done, I may ask for some help from a few chosen individuals to help with readying the sources further.

On a different note: Cyan has been working with another company on something (slightly but completely) different. Of course, I can't reveal anything yet but hopefully something will be available late summer, this year. I know that is coming up quickly and it is taking all of our energies.

I could write a small book about the many transformations that Cyan has gone through over the years. Even though I was not at Cyan from the beginning, there was only one ex-Cyan employee at the time I was hired. For the most of that history, we have been a quiet, shy company that let our products do the talking. With the rise of UruLive that had to change because the game was about community and Cyan sharing itself with that community, albeit in our own shy way. So, after UruLive was canceled, Cyan has reverted back to it roots of being that quiet, shy company again, albeit not quite as shy as before. ;-)

Thanks for everyone's support.
Chogon


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 11:48 pm 
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Chogon wrote:
After that is done, I may ask for some help from a few chosen individuals to help with readying the sources further.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 11:56 pm 
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Would it be considered out of place to inquire what code changes need to be made, and assume someone else in the community might be able to help. Considering what some of the more computer savvy people in the Myst community are capable of, I know its a shot in the dark but I am curios

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 12:10 am 
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Karkadann wrote:
Would it be considered out of place to inquire what code changes need to be made, and assume someone else in the community might be able to help.

It has less to do with something technical and more to do with, well, something else.

Thanks,
Chogon


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 12:14 am 
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:raises eyebrow:
:tilts head slightly to one side:

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 12:31 am 
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Yeah before anything can progress they have to remove... "The Evidence" :wink: :twisted:


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