Oh my word, the LAG!

Romer Openfield · **Posted:** Mon Aug 24, 2009 8:47 pm

That's a fine machine, Sophia. If you haven't, I'd go to http://www.broadbandreports.com (you might have to register) and run the Tweak test (under Tools). Might as well run the speed tests too.

Mac_Fife · **Posted:** Mon Aug 24, 2009 9:10 pm

Yeah, I'd say it sounds like some networking anomaly. If it weren't for another machine on the same connection working OK (I think that's what you were saying?) I'd have been suspecting a long "ping" time to the server (although you can't actually ping the MQO servers). As it is, that seems unlikely, unless something odd is happening in the forming of packets from your PC that is causing them to take a different route or get delayed.

You don't connect wirelessly do you? I remember in MOUL, dadguy (I think) had a problem that was fixed by repositioning his PC slightly to get get a better signal, although he hadn't really noticed a problem outside of MOUL. I think the MOUL/MQO protocols may be a little less forgiving of dropped packet errors, etc.

veralun · **Posted:** Mon Aug 24, 2009 9:33 pm

If the cause of lag is the result of the specs of ones computer, than I think we have a major problem here.
Personal I do think the lag has to do with the connectionspeed/traffic.
Ok, some tricks, like disabling the shadows and perhaps other things, may help a bit.

If I go back to the times of Uru Live, the lack of broadbandconnections was one of the problems that Uru Live dit not succeed.
That was 2003. There was also major lag at that time.
Now 6 years later the connectionspeed has improved for the most of us. Also the specs of the most computers are better.
Still we have lag.

I cannot believe that only the newest computer with ultimate specs are needed to play an online game like MQ.
One cannot expect that we buy the most advanced computer to play a game like MQ or Uru Live (MOUL) only to reduce lag.
So there must be something else to resolve this lag.
I hope Cyan (and/or others) will find this out so we all can play the online game without the frustrations of lag.

Mac_Fife · **Posted:** Mon Aug 24, 2009 10:06 pm

veralun wrote:

If the cause of lag is the result of the specs of ones computer, than I think we have a major problem here.
Personal I do think the lag has to do with the connectionspeed/traffic.
Ok, some tricks, like disabling the shadows and perhaps other things, may help a bit.

Yeah, I've got MQO running quite happily on an old 1.7Ghz AMD XP2000+ with 1.5GB of RAM as well as on a newer and faster laptop, and although my ADSL is reasonably fast at ~6Mbps, I share the connection with my wife and two teenage sons so my actual speed goes up an down quite a bit. I'm sure most people PC specs will easily top the spec of that old PC, and I don't think the PC requirements are any greater than they were for MOUL.

So, I agree, Sophia's PC itself isn't the problem, but maybe some element of how it is configured is to blame.

Sophia · **Joined:** Wed May 17, 2006 11:30 pm **Posts:** 1116

Well it might be the wireless connection, though Murray's puter is on a wireless too and has hardly any lag to speak of. And yes, I'm indeed posting here not to complain but to see if, when the floodgates open, we may be able to prevent something similar on a larger scale :wink:

Romer, I ran that test you said, it doesn't mean a thing to me but these are the test results:

Quote:

Actual data bytes sent: 1136421
Actual data packets: 780
Max packet sent (MTU): 1500
Max packet recd (MTU): 1500
Retransmitted packets: 77
sacks you sent: 83
pushed data pkts: 111
data transmit time: 12.053 secs
our max idletime: 544.0 ms
transfer rate: 82544 bytes/sec
transfer rate: 660 kbits/sec
transfer efficiency: 90%

PS Officially I think we have a download speed of between 1.5 and 3 Mbps

And, next I'll be off testing it on my netbook, which is WAY under-specked but might turn out to be faster! :lol:

Oh, I found another site, http://www.speedtest.net/ and the results are:

Quote:

Actual download spead: 1.53 Mbps
Upload: 0.53 Mpbs
Ping: 48 ms

Romer Openfield · **Posted:** Tue Aug 25, 2009 12:27 am

Sophia, your test results from the Tweak test should have come with recommendations. Scroll down to see them. If there are no recommendations, you'll see all happy faces;)

Sophia · **Joined:** Wed May 17, 2006 11:30 pm **Posts:** 1116

Ok, thanks, though it still means nothing to me. :lol:

These were my recommendations:

Quote:

4. Notes and Recommendations
Choose RWIN between 14600 and 37960 (FAQ #586)
Vista has no tunable TCP settings
Read the tweak FAQ

Observations:
Some re-transmissions seen (FAQ #705)

Observations:
Become pingable
if you need basic packet loss tests done
Check tweak FAQ

I think this might be the actual results page, any personal information you see there is hereby strictly under NDA :twisted:

AdamJohnso · **Posted:** Tue Aug 25, 2009 12:39 am

The lag is not caused by network issues. I had an interesting experience in Relto where my data stream with the auth server became corrupted (through various unmentionable means) and completely lost the game server connections and managed to keep the game running....

Um, yeah, sorry about the vagueness, but I'd rather not explain this one >.>

Sophia · **Joined:** Wed May 17, 2006 11:30 pm **Posts:** 1116

Euhh yes it is rather vague, lol, without getting too explicit and hurt my poor ears, do you have any ideas what COULD cause it though? BTW I still haven't disconnected my webcam yet... that will be the next step, promise :lol:

AdamJohnso · **Posted:** Tue Aug 25, 2009 12:47 am

Even on my machine, which I built only 1 year and 9 days ago, there is a small amount of lag. Since MOUL, there has been a curious random/spontaneous lag. I personally feel it's a call to PhysX's fetchResults() that is blocking... But that's only idle speculation.

All I can really offer is examine what variables have changed since the last time MQO worked. MQExplorer.exe and anything you may have changed on your system (drivers, windows updates, programs installed, complete reinstall of the OS, hammers being applied forcefully to the video card). I wonder if Chogon would be willing to tell us if anything that could cause some code to block was introduced in this build of MQ.

For now, I'll encourage you to play with the settings some more (even getting out UruTweak or whatever and editing graphics.ini would be great). I'd try some really low resolutions in windowed mode with everything at the bare minimum. And, as many others have mentioned, shadows are deadly. Best leave them turned all the way off, even if your system is capable of handling them.

Edit: My system specs:
Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 (3.0GHz)
2GB DDR2 1066MHz RAM
ATi Radeon HD 4850
Windows 7 Ultimate RTM

Windows Experience Index: 5.5 (RAM is the low score)

JWPlatt · **Posted:** Tue Aug 25, 2009 1:04 am

To translate

, "blocking" is when the software stops and waits for something. In a threaded (multiple things happening) model where other events (spontaneous things to do) can happen, that's not a bad thing and is quite useful. It's only bad when it stops things that should be happening.

Sophia · **Joined:** Wed May 17, 2006 11:30 pm **Posts:** 1116

Thanks

Ok, this might all be a wild goose chase and may lead to nothing, but hopefully it will help somebody in the future with similar problems and not the luxery of at least 4 test computers :lol:

I dusted off UruTweak (ah, happy memories) but I can't seem to find a file graphics.ini in MQ. Closest I can find is the file GUI_Distric_GraphicsSettingsDialog.prp in DAT, is that it?

I have not changed any settings lately actually, in fact I copied the first beta version of MQ to another folder and downloaded the whole new version from scratch. The old version did not have any lag actually, and I have not installed or updated any drivers/hardware in the meantime. I unticked Shadows yesterday, but that did not make any difference, and I was in a personal instance of MQ, not multiplayer. Oh yes, and I don't run any firewalls except the built-in Windows one and the router... I know programs like ZoneAlarm can be quite a show stopper too.

PS for the first time ever I met somebody who celebrates the birthday of their computer, 1 year and 9 days indeed :lol:

AdamJohnso · **Posted:** Tue Aug 25, 2009 1:25 am

JWPlatt wrote:

To translate

, "blocking" is when the software stops and waits for something. In a threaded (multiple things happening) model where other events (spontaneous things to do) can happen, that's not a bad thing and is quite useful. It's only bad when it stops things that should be happening.

Thanks for the translation, sometimes I forget that they're necessary! Guess I need to get back into practice.

I suppose the blocking IS useful in that the physics simulation works, rather than objects flying to and fro at random (wait, that's how most kickables behaved in MOUL). Definitely annoying though. I remember a good section of the PhysX SDK's manual talking about this. (I love looking at that manual, obviously)

Sophia wrote:

Thanks

Ok, this might all be a wild goose chase and may lead to nothing, but hopefully it will help somebody in the future with similar problems and not the luxery of at least 4 test computers :lol:

I dusted off UruTweak (ah, happy memories) but I can't seem to find a file graphics.ini in MQ. Closest I can find is the file GUI_Distric_GraphicsSettingsDialog.prp in DAT, is that it?

Let's not edit a PRP with a text editor... That might get tedious. What you're looking for will be in C:\Users\<<<Your User Name>>>\Documents\MagiQuest Online\Init\graphics.ini

(I'm assuming the encryption key is the same as in Uru and UruTweak can edit the file. I have no reason to believe it has changed though. The whatdoyousee magic is still there.)

Quote:

I have not changed any settings lately actually, in fact I copied the first beta version of MQ to another folder and downloaded the whole new version from scratch. The old version did not have any lag actually, and I have not installed or updated any drivers/hardware in the meantime. I unticked Shadows yesterday, but that did not make any difference, and I was in a personal instance of MQ, not multiplayer.

This leads me to believe some recent change to the engine is not jiving with your computer... I'd offer to pull out a hex editor, hex comparer, and a disassembly program to fix it, but MQ is too big of a program for that to be feasible. (5 years later, we're still learning)

Quote:

PS for the first time ever I met somebody who celebrates the birthday of their computer, 1 year and 9 days indeed :lol:

It was a memorable day. My grandfather turned 73 and the UPS truck carrying my beloved components got in a minor accident involving a car and a broken lightpost. Needless to say, the delivery was marked D, for damaged.

Sophia · **Joined:** Wed May 17, 2006 11:30 pm **Posts:** 1116

AdamJohnso wrote:

What you're looking for will be in C:\Users\<<<Your User Name>>>\Documents\MagiQuest Online\Init\graphics.ini

Found

These are the settings:

Quote:

Graphics.Width 1680
Graphics.Height 1050
Graphics.ColorDepth 32
Graphics.Windowed false
Graphics.AntiAliasAmount 4
Graphics.AnisotropicLevel 4
Graphics.TextureQuality 1
Quality.Level 1
Graphics.Shadow.Enable 0
Graphics.EnablePlanarReflections 1
Graphics.EnableVSync false
Graphics.Shadow.VisibleDistance 0.0

AdamJohnso · **Posted:** Tue Aug 25, 2009 1:45 am

Yeah, those are some hefty ones. Let's try something a bit less straining. I'd recommend this.

Quote:

Graphics.Width 800
Graphics.Height 600
Graphics.ColorDepth 32
Graphics.Windowed true
Graphics.AntiAliasAmount 1
Graphics.AnisotropicLevel 1
Graphics.TextureQuality 1
Quality.Level 1
Graphics.Shadow.Enable 0
Graphics.EnablePlanarReflections 0
Graphics.EnableVSync false
Graphics.Shadow.VisibleDistance 0.0

Feel free to change them back if it doesn't help or tweak them further. I might try playing with VSync, for example.

Just for kicks, these are mine.

Quote:

Graphics.Width 1152
Graphics.Height 864
Graphics.ColorDepth 32
Graphics.Windowed true
Graphics.AntiAliasAmount 6
Graphics.AnisotropicLevel 16
Graphics.TextureQuality 2
Quality.Level 3
Graphics.Shadow.Enable 1
Graphics.EnablePlanarReflections 1
Graphics.EnableVSync true
Graphics.Shadow.VisibleDistance 1.0

Oh my word, the LAG!

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