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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 3:25 am 
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Let us be happy and rejoice that we have the chance to Return. Be grateful for gifts given and shared. Wonderful and much appreciated.

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Last edited by CrisGer on Thu Nov 26, 2009 3:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 3:27 am 
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Location: Digging around in the dusty archives, uncovering Uru history.
Thank you, RAWA, Rand, and everyone else at Cyan for your patience with us, your persistence in trying to bring Uru back to us, and for giving us such a wonderful world to explore in the first place. Looking forward to returning to the cavern, soon. :D

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 3:29 am 
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Everyone is praising them so much right now after this post, but really even though they have made some form of contact with us, but really there isn't any new news, so were not really an further ahead. Though this is just my opinion.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 3:46 am 
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Much better... :wink:

[edit1]
With posts being deleted my reply is now irrelevant. :?


Last edited by semplerfi on Thu Nov 26, 2009 4:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 4:02 am 
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Regardless if their is anything new to tell us, good news or bad, it is good that Cyan is coming out and telling us the current state of things. :)

I'd prefer posts like this over silence any day.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 4:13 am 
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I agree with you, Jamey. Any kind of touching base is encouraging to me. Thank you RAWA. :D

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 4:13 am 
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ddb174 wrote:
If the content is not open-sourced, then they would still be restricting and controlling its use.

Ah, so you don't like that. I get it. I am, and I think most people are, satisfied with the generous prospect of developing the code and tools, and using Cyan's content as Cyan sees fit. It's User Created Content (UCC) that most of the community has really been concerned about all these years, legally and publicly using it, and being able to fix the code Cyan has not be able or willing to fix. There are some issues to fix or rearrange content (e.g. instancing, "Descent") that would need to be addressed with Cyan, but UCC on public shards and open code would now be possible and that's really what we've been waiting for, isn't it? Cyan has a right to their IP, considering the big give of open source code, don't they?

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 4:37 am 
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JWPlatt wrote:
ddb174 wrote:
If the content is not open-sourced, then they would still be restricting and controlling its use.

Ah, so you don't like that. I get it. I am, and I think most people are, satisfied with the generous prospect of developing the code and tools, and using Cyan's content as Cyan sees fit. It's User Created Content (UCC) that most of the community has really been concerned about all these years, legally and publicly using it, and being able to fix the code Cyan has not be able or willing to fix. There are some issues to fix or rearrange content (e.g. instancing, "Descent") that would need to be addressed with Cyan, but UCC on public shards and open code would now be possible and that's really what we've been waiting for, isn't it? Cyan has a right to their IP, considering the big give of open source code, don't they?

But that's not open-source then. Just Plasma & tools are; that's what I've been getting at. So it's deceptive to say "open-source Uru" as that indicates a large freedom with regards to Uru, and Cyan does not intend to give us that freedom.

They are legally able to do just that. Whether it is morally justified is a whole other can of worms, and such a discussion would apply to copyright in general. I'll try not to rant about that, I'm sure to everyone's relief ;)


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 5:04 am 
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Personally, I will be glad to get back into the cavern again: to dance and laugh and talk with friends. I would love to see what Giles has been up to while we have languished on the surface...

Think I'll go hug a cone today.

Yve


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 5:13 am 
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Yvesia wrote:
Think I'll go hug a cone today.

He he. Me too. The update is most appreciated. Some update is much better than the waiting and wondering.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 5:20 am 
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Apparently the database ate my post. I shall repost it.

Atrion wrote:
Everyone is praising them so much right now after this post, but really even though they have made some form of contact with us, but really there isn't any new news, so were not really an further ahead. Though this is just my opinion.


Thanks, I'm glad you realize things like

CrisGer wrote:
Let us be happy and rejoice that we have the chance to Return. Be grateful for gifts given and shared. Wonderful and much appreciated.


When repeated are somewhat premature and not really warranted.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 6:49 am 
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Thank you for the update, it seems to be something that every body outside of Cyan has been waiting for. Its good to hear its still on your To Do list. Im sure when the rest of the Community hears that Cyan has finally broke their silence some Faith will be restored. So now we wait but at least we heard from you guys and that what a lot of us have been waiting for.

Its nice to know you guys have decided keep us in the loop even though the news is that Its not More yet.

Again thanks and Happy Thanksgiving.

On the less serious side, who is planning on inviting a Barho to their Thanksgiving dinner this year? :D

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 7:06 am 
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ddb174 wrote:
JWPlatt wrote:
ddb174 wrote:
If the content is not open-sourced, then they would still be restricting and controlling its use.

Ah, so you don't like that. I get it. I am, and I think most people are, satisfied with the generous prospect of developing the code and tools, and using Cyan's content as Cyan sees fit. It's User Created Content (UCC) that most of the community has really been concerned about all these years, legally and publicly using it, and being able to fix the code Cyan has not be able or willing to fix. There are some issues to fix or rearrange content (e.g. instancing, "Descent") that would need to be addressed with Cyan, but UCC on public shards and open code would now be possible and that's really what we've been waiting for, isn't it? Cyan has a right to their IP, considering the big give of open source code, don't they?

But that's not open-source then. Just Plasma & tools are; that's what I've been getting at. So it's deceptive to say "open-source Uru" as that indicates a large freedom with regards to Uru, and Cyan does not intend to give us that freedom.
They are legally able to do just that. Whether it is morally justified is a whole other can of worms, and such a discussion would apply to copyright in general. I'll try not to rant about that, I'm sure to everyone's relief ;)

It's "Open Source Uru" in exactly the same way as "Open Source Quake", "Open Source Doom", and others, work. They all have "Open Source" engines, and "Closed Source" assets (Though in the case of Quake and Doom, there is a "Shareware" demo version you can get that has the content for the first part working and "free").

And, at the end of it all, there is absolutely nothing stopping you taking "Open Source Uru", writing age(s) that use no Cyan assets whatsoever, and releasing it for free for everyone (As many Mod makers have done with Doom/Quake - They're generally called "Total Conversion Mods").

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 7:25 am 
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One suggestion:

Rand Miller wrote:
either pull the parts that we cannot release or rewrite them

Just pull them. Save your cycles. Okay, so it won't compile. How often are open source projects complete at the outset? Let the community attempt to do what it's been wanting to do for years - help you. Once it's open source, Cyan is also part of the community and could contribute to rewrites if and when it has the time and the desire. But at least work can be done in the meantime. You can commit your own rewites later if you want, but put the test to the developer community. Maybe distribute working binaries (as was done with Until Uru), if possible, until the code is rewritten and compiles in the public domain.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 8:04 am 
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Anaerin wrote:
ddb174 wrote:
JWPlatt wrote:
ddb174 wrote:
If the content is not open-sourced, then they would still be restricting and controlling its use.

Ah, so you don't like that. I get it. I am, and I think most people are, satisfied with the generous prospect of developing the code and tools, and using Cyan's content as Cyan sees fit. It's User Created Content (UCC) that most of the community has really been concerned about all these years, legally and publicly using it, and being able to fix the code Cyan has not be able or willing to fix. There are some issues to fix or rearrange content (e.g. instancing, "Descent") that would need to be addressed with Cyan, but UCC on public shards and open code would now be possible and that's really what we've been waiting for, isn't it? Cyan has a right to their IP, considering the big give of open source code, don't they?

But that's not open-source then. Just Plasma & tools are; that's what I've been getting at. So it's deceptive to say "open-source Uru" as that indicates a large freedom with regards to Uru, and Cyan does not intend to give us that freedom.
They are legally able to do just that. Whether it is morally justified is a whole other can of worms, and such a discussion would apply to copyright in general. I'll try not to rant about that, I'm sure to everyone's relief ;)

It's "Open Source Uru" in exactly the same way as "Open Source Quake", "Open Source Doom", and others, work. They all have "Open Source" engines, and "Closed Source" assets (Though in the case of Quake and Doom, there is a "Shareware" demo version you can get that has the content for the first part working and "free").

And, at the end of it all, there is absolutely nothing stopping you taking "Open Source Uru", writing age(s) that use no Cyan assets whatsoever, and releasing it for free for everyone (As many Mod makers have done with Doom/Quake - They're generally called "Total Conversion Mods").

Quake is not open-source, and neither is Doom. The *Quake Engine* is open-source. The *Doom Engine* is open-source. Whether those communities call the Quake Engine "Quake" or not, that's their own issue: that doesn't mean that such phrases are not just as deceptive there. When a person says something is open-source, it is implied that you can modify and redistribute that thing. That is *not* the case here; end of story.

And sure, if one creates their own avatars, animations, controls to replace the KI, sounds, fonts, Ages, etc, you could redistribute that (provided you also don't mention the D'ni, Linking Books, etc). But such a thing is certainly not Uru. I think most people like making Ages for Uru to somehow have them all in the same "universe". If they just wanted a stand-alone game and had to redo all the content, they would choose another engine, because Plasma simply is not very good. And that's an important point for everyone to realise: even if you like Uru, the technology it is built on is not well made. The rendering engine isn't great(see blendspans), the networking engine is atrocious, it has no physics engine(you have to plug one in), the sound engine is okay so far as I know, there is no threaded loading of resources, the mechanism for scripting is inexpertly devised and consequently extremely difficult to script unbuggy code, it's DirectX only, it's not cross-platform(even ignoring DirectX. The mac version is run within Cedega's compatibility layer), it's inefficient, etc, etc. It doesn't really even have any notable features :P I guess its close ties to 3dsmax is a feature for some people.

Still, it would be nice to have the source code, though it wouldn't make a huge difference really. The 3dsmax plugin would be appreciated by quite a few, I imagine. But use it for a standalone game? Not a chance.


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