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PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 3:39 am 
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Nadnerb wrote:
There's no other way to describe the process of creating an application that does something like this.


Yes there is...you're just either not thinking of any or not aware of any.

I hate to say this, but despite the usefulness of the tool, if it is against the ToS I think this thread has to go until you can get Cyan's blessing.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 3:40 am 
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No, there is not. Perhaps you should tell me how you would write an application that logs in with a moul user's account and fetched their player vault without reverse engineering anything.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 3:43 am 
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OHB wrote:
Can you comment on the library Adam? Do you believe that it is violation free? I have a hard time imagining that there isn't some reverse engineering going on, but you now what you did.

To be clear: I'm in favor of having a mechanism to access game information outside the client...but I'm not going to pursue anything that's against the ToS.


I'd suggest you read this blog post. The most relevant portion begins at "So when we say 'hacking Uru', what does it mean?"

WhoM is a violation of the ToS, just like PyPRP, the tool that has been used to create ages for several years now, is... Even if the net code wasn't reverse engineered, it would have been captured using something like Wireshark, which is (or was) a violation of the ToS. Wireshark captures are pretty useless anyway because the net traffic is encrypted unless you feel up to brute forcing the data stream or changing UruExplorer.exe to use a known key (hard).

Despite the code being mostly reverse engineered, it has gone through several revisions since some of us dug it out a couple of years ago. At its current stage, it merely performs the same function as Cyan's code. I imagine if you opened up Cyan's file and my file, they would look vastly different.

On a tangential note, one of Tahgtahv's programs that logs the MOUL net traffic for debugging purposes was approved by Cyan. It uses code that was reverse engineered from Uru. The program is posted in the Technical Discussion portion of the forum. I'd say that section of the ToS is to protect against malicious hacking (cracking), like changing the Memorial Imager. Our actions aren't condemned by Cyan, and I would say that's because they're not malicious.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 3:44 am 
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OHB wrote:
I hate to say this, but despite the usefulness of the tool, if it is against the ToS I think this thread has to go until you can get Cyan's blessing.


I can't believe that you would support oppressive moderation >.>

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 3:47 am 
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AdamJohnso wrote:
OHB wrote:
I hate to say this, but despite the usefulness of the tool, if it is against the ToS I think this thread has to go until you can get Cyan's blessing.


I can't believe that you would support oppressive moderation >.>


What can I say? I like to play by the rules. If it's kosher I'm all for it. If Cyan's said they're during the blind eye - awesome. I'm not the expert here, I defer to you/Cyan.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 4:15 am 
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So, now you're saying you'll trust him if he says this is okay with Cyan? (I would, but that's not the point here) A moment ago you were asking for the source to his program because you didn't trust him not to have his client phone home. Which is it? :P

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 6:11 am 
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Thanks Adam this is excellent. :D

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 7:38 am 
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Which, the software or the argument? :twisted:


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 8:57 am 
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I think this is an useful program, and of course there have been similar developments both in the past (the Who's online list of the various UU shards) and in the present (the KI chat plugin).
I also think that, due to the ToS and the current status of rule 7 (which is going to be eventually changed but, until then, is still valid in its current formulation) asking permission from Cyan would be a very good thing.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 8:59 am 
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I've been able to log in once, but I get the following error ever since:
Unhandled Exception
Program: MUd.WhoM
Version 1.0.0.34212

Exception Type: System.NotSupportedException
Exception Message: 0000C025 -
Exception Source: MUd.Core

InnerException Type: (null)
InnerException Message: (null)

Stack Trace
at MUd.AuthClient.IReceive(IAsyncResult ar)

It's XP x64 just in case.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 11:14 am 
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That's one very useful tool. And something that has indeed been requested by many people over the years..


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 11:38 am 
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I'm not sure if Hoikas had explicit permission for WhoM or not. (I'm guessing not) However, we stay in touch with Cyan about our work in general. Various members of Cyan have known our group for 5-6 years or more and they try to help us out in whatever ways they can. Legally, it makes sense to have documents like the EULA in place, but I can assure you that if we were doing anything they didn't want us to, they would tell us about it.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 5:45 pm 
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Rusty wrote:
I've been able to log in once, but I get the following error ever since:
Unhandled Exception
Program: MUd.WhoM
Version 1.0.0.34212

Exception Type: System.NotSupportedException
Exception Message: 0000C025 -
Exception Source: MUd.Core

InnerException Type: (null)
InnerException Message: (null)

Stack Trace
at MUd.AuthClient.IReceive(IAsyncResult ar)

It's XP x64 just in case.


There are some issues that I have been unable to pin down in XP x64 for some time... Somehow the network traffic becomes garbage. It seems to only happen on Windows XP though. I'll keep looking for a solution.

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Last edited by AdamJohnso on Fri Apr 02, 2010 5:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 5:47 pm 
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I remember the untilUru Locator did a similar thing. Glad to finally see something similar for MOULa. Great job, Adam. A great example of the kind of talent we will need in OS Uru.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 5:56 pm 
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Whilyam wrote:
I remember the untilUru Locator did a similar thing.


At first I wanted to display a massive WOL for the whole shard... After a few attempts at that, I found it would be impossible to do that without hammering the server, so I fell back on Plan B: UU Locator style. I liked UU Locator when UU was around, and so did many others. So yeah ;)

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