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 Post subject: A problem
PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 12:52 pm 
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So I came upon a problem with Catherine's after Revelation. In Myst V, Yeesha says in one of her imager recordings "Did I ask to watch my Mother die?". We know she never had returned to Tomahna after leaving it for her journey, so Catherine must have died before she left. But than we see Catherine in the Bahro glyph of Yeesha's leaving, and in his letter, written after Yeesha left, Atrus says that Catherine had a dream last night.

So how could Yeesha see her mother die after she left Tomahna? any ideas? the only possible solution is that Catherine left, maybe looking for Yeesha. So how did she die? and when? (she says the "my mom die" after "Calam's death", so maybe she died after Calam did? but than again after "my mom dies" she said "my father's tool". I believe she is talking about her father using her as a tool to forget the past, which is something happening as long as she lives. So maybe she isn't talking chronologically, so mom's death could happen before or after Calam died. Than again...maybe it's some unknown event leading her to realize she was her father's tool, which happened after Catherine's death? than she *is* talking chronologically, so mom's death happened after Calam's death. wow, I'm confused :shock: ).

What do you think? how did Catherine die and when?

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 2:10 pm 
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I can only say that someone at Cyan once said that Catherine's death was a point they had planned to elaborate upon. Meaning, it's fishy. And it's probably something that we cannot deduce from the clues we have now.

I think that this apparent contradiction has something to do with her wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey, oh-so-special powers, since it hardly makes sense for me in a linear timeline. That said, we don't even know how those powers work, so... yeah.

I hadn't thought of Catherine going to D'ni, though. This could be linked to the mysterious presence of Catherine's diaries in the City... has anyone ever explained what those journals were doing down there?

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 2:19 pm 
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mmmm maybe Catherine never left, maybe the Bahro just brought Yeesha to Tomahna to see Catherine just before she died, and than she left before anyone, including her father, saw her.

Maybe she saw her Mother's death using the serenian memory amulet.

If there's anything I wanna see an official explanation to, is this.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 4:32 am 
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Or Catherine died somewhere other than Tomahna...

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 6:49 am 
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Maybe the death was a fugurative one...not a physical one. We do know that Atrus never had any intention of freeing his sons from their prisons, but that Catherine wanted to get them home. I can imagine they had many 'arguments' over this throughout the years. Maybe Catherine 'died' when she gave up trying to get Atrus to free her sons? Of course, this would have been witnessed by a young Yeesha, and would have left an indelible impression on her. At any rate it would just go to show how disfunctional this family really was...


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 7:33 am 
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There's a fair indication that Catherine is indeed.. well.. dead. =/

We also know that her journals were found by the DRC, so one would assume.. that she died in D'ni.

Even if nothing but sheer old age would be considered, she's quite likely dead. (Noting that she was not of d'ni blood, to our knowledge)

Even Atrus /should/ be dead, but, if I remember it correctly, it was said.. somewhere, that he found a way of extending his life. =)


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 11:58 am 
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Atrus is 1/4 D'ni so it's feasible that he would have their long lifespan. Catherine was of Rivenese descent so she would have a normal (by Riven terms) lifespan. Atrus' parents were Gehn and Keta. Now Gehn was half D'ni being the son of Aitrus and Ti'ana. To my knowledge the origins of Keta have yet to be revealed. It's been said she was a surface dweller and that her real name was Leira, a member of the "Amad" people. Other than that we don't know much about her. Gehn theorized that, because the cultures and technology of the Amad were similar, they might be descendants of D'ni that somehow made their way to the surface. Supposing Keta was human that would make Atrus 1/4 D'ni and Yeesha 1/8 D'ni and we already know Yeesha is over 200 so it would seem that any amount of D'ni blood extends the life of the person exponentially.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 12:24 pm 
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Loshem wrote:
Atrus is 1/4 D'ni so it's feasible that he would have their long lifespan. Catherine was of Rivenese descent so she would have a normal (by Riven terms) lifespan. Atrus' parents were Gehn and Keta. Now Gehn was half D'ni being the son of Aitrus and Ti'ana. To my knowledge the origins of Keta have yet to be revealed. It's been said she was a surface dweller and that her real name was Leira, a member of the "Amad" people. Other than that we don't know much about her. Gehn theorized that, because the cultures and technology of the Amad were similar, they might be descendants of D'ni that somehow made their way to the surface. Supposing Keta was human that would make Atrus 1/4 D'ni and Yeesha 1/8 D'ni and we already know Yeesha is over 200 so it would seem that any amount of D'ni blood extends the life of the person exponentially.


However, it was noted, by RAWA, perhaps (?), that Atrus should be dead, and that he had found a way of extending his life. I don't have any sources, but I do remember this story quite distinctly. Atrus is old, and he is only 1/4 D'ni. Infact, Atrus is exceptionally old. Yeesha, however, has a whole bunch of other abilities, which could explain her extended lifespan, rather than merely being of D'ni blood. While I shall agree that her D'ni blood would, in part, be some of it. =)


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 12:35 pm 
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Quote:
We also know that her journals were found by the DRC, so one would assume.. that she died in D'ni.

It is a possibility, but leaving her diaries in D'ni could have been a deliberate act, well before her death. I cannot think of a reason for her to have brought her diaries down there if she was just exploring, reminiscing and/or looking for her daughter. "Spare hiking boots... check. Water bottle... check. Food... check. Linking Book to an Age with a link back to Tomahna... check. 70 years' worth of diaries... check, those are going to be so useful!" ...What? :? It doesn't make sense to me.
But Catherine knew that 'new explorers of D'ni' were coming. I like to think that she left them in D'ni for us, for helping us understand the past. If that was her intent, she could have either brought them down herself (and possibly died there), or she could have left them to Yeesha when she left Tomahna, or even asked Atrus to do it after her death (it could be a simple matter of link-in/link-out after all).

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Even Atrus /should/ be dead, but, if I remember it correctly, it was said.. somewhere, that he found a way of extending his life. =)

Sheer stubborness, if I remember correctly. He was alive in 2005, but he might have died by now :cry:
And yeah, Catherine is dead. But I think that Poutrew meant that Yeesha used the word metaphorically in her imager speech. Even though Yeesha notes in her journal that she herself was "their spark of joy" during that difficult period... so, even in a pessimistic view of those years, Catherine did have someone to hold on to.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 12:20 am 
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Questions: ? :? ?
1) Where can I find the journals found by the DRC talking about/written by Catherine?
2) Where does it say/ how does Atrus extend his life?

Answers: ! 8) !
Everyone's concept of the bloodlines seems right to me, although I wonder... Could the Bahro have done Yeesha and/or her family some favors in return for freeing them/being their friend? Perhaps that has something to do with it. :D

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 12:45 am 
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meauru wrote:
Questions: ? :? ?
1) Where can I find the journals found by the DRC talking about/written by Catherine?

Buy the "Myst Reader". It is actually the 3 Myst novels in one book (The Book of Atrus, The Book of Ti'ana, The Book of D'ni)
Meauru wrote:
2) Where does it say/ how does Atrus extend his life?

No idea. This is news to me as well.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 4:55 am 
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Ah I see... :oops: I actually just started re-reading the MYST Reader yesterday, so... I may take a while to find that little piece of information. :lol:
Chehv shehm!

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 6:30 am 
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Well, to be precise, the Myst novels are based on info from Catherine's journals but there are not the journals themselves.

Catherine's journals are unavailable for us explorers and probably everybody else except from some chosen people at Cyan who have access to the basement of Cyan's headquarters which is the presumed place where they are kept. ;)

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 11:53 am 
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Atrus extending his life is mentioned in the prologue of Myst 5.

[spoiler]
Atrus wrote:
I've gone to great lengths to watch the ending be written...
[/spoiler]

And Rand mentions it also in the interview in the back of the Myst 5 hint guide. *Digs it out and finds the quote*

[spoiler]
Rand wrote:
And actually, as a little side note, it's been a long time. Atrus is an old guy. And at one point in the speech, even at the beginning, the intro speech, he makes a small comment about going to great lengths to watch the end be written. It's just a comment you just gloss over if you're just listening to the intro. But he has done things to preserve himself to see how this all plays out. He wants to see what happens. And there are methods for him to make that happen. In other words, he wanted to not die before he saw what happened, and he made sure that happened.
[/spoiler]

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 11:48 pm 
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:o I was just playing MYST V!! Hehe, I remember that... It makes more sense now, chehv shehm!

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