Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 6:21 am Posts: 48
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Ok, so my little side note in this thread almost started, a can(n)on war, and since people started to talk more, and more about "canon", I decide do branch this discussion here (and keep thread "Let's talk about ways to improve Uru as an MMO" more clean and dedicated).
Now mind You that this actual post will be from the angle "what I think should be fix in uru".
Also: To users which I'm quoting here: whenever I use "You" in response, try not to treat my post as "direct attack on Your statement", but as "open letter describing my opinion to reader".
Since I'm not native English speaker it's easier for me to write "You" instead of "one can say that...".
kaelisebonrai wrote: Uru "Live", A living, breathing world, designed to be realistic, with bits of alternative reality gaming. That site, those forums, those events... they're all very much part of this game, like it or not. You don't have to like it, no one asked. But that is what Uru is. (To reader: Emphasis is mine. If You don't know what "alternative reality gaming", search for it. Otherwise this discussion will have no sense) Yessss, "alternative reality gaming". Well I know that Rand Miller loves the idea (ad-lest this video suggest it). But that is part of my issue with URU. That is what I see as "need to be fixed". Don't get wrong: alternative reality gaming is interesting concept, and can be fun (if You into such a thing). But there is a funny fact: there is no commercially successful alternative reality game. One tried (Majesty if I recall correctly) and failed. And usually MMO type of game to be successful, it needs (now this may be shocking revelation ) "massive" amount of players. "Massive amount of players", and "obscure, not very popular type of entertainment" don't go to well with each other.
In addition: after 4 (or 5 if You count "End of Ages") of adventure games (like in "point and click adventure game") then they announce MMO in Myst universe, I would come to expect this: same as Myst but with more players. What I'm trying to say is that I expected URU to be massive multilayer online adventure game (and since "adventure" might be twisted in meaning during reading: "adventure" like in well establish name of well establish game genre. Like in "point-and-click adventure game"). And instead we got "alternative reality game", meaning: "completely different genre". It's like I ordered street racer, and got street fighter. Do I like it? Of course not. Do I have to like it? Again no. Do I have to rant about it on this forum? Again no. But since original topic was "Let's talk about ways to improve Uru as an MMO", then I think I could share my opinion about it. And my opinion is this: URU as a game, as MMO game, will benefit from losing "bits of alternative reality gaming", and coming back to it's roots: being an point-and-click adventure game.
Whilyam wrote: Canon is the collection of facts about the in-game world. There is no reasonable distinction between the two. That is why declaring facts not found in the game to not have existed is incorrect, regardless of the understanding of new people. We must put those facts into the game (and I would prefer to see an audio guide, perhaps voiced by some of the talent we have in the community), but they did happen, they do matter, they are canon, and I believe anything else is delusion. (Again, emphasis is mine) Now this post may actually change my tune. Maybe not opinion but adleast a tune  Because now I see two a little different issues. Assuming You can find "in-game fact" outside of the game: 1) Which sites are legitimate? (except of course mystonline.com And Even then, not every post on this forum is "a fact") What sites are truly source of facts? What makes them legitimate? For example, let me get the url out of my a.. hat: http://subrest.net/ Is this a source of "in-game facts"? If read there that, for example "Victor Laxman just die today in a car accident" would that be a fact? If so, why? Because You say so? Right now there is no way to tell which sites are legitimate (again except mystonline.com), so the only source of fact outside of the game would be this forum. And only posts would count as "fact source" would be RAWA, and other Cyan staff members (staff as in "employer" not "moderator") posts.
2) "It's still don't make a good storytelling". If for example Cyan would put a link to one of many Wikis dedicated to Myst universe on mystonlie.com. That would make this hypothetical wiki a legitimate site for me, and since wikis usually are quite good at gathering facts, then a new player would have straight path to knowledge about those facts and events which happened up today. But that still would not be a good storytelling, only good facts telling. What is a difference? Well try to ready any kind of encyclopedia, and then any kind of novel. You will get the drill. (again: this is not about "what is current state". This is about "how to make it better".)
So Kaelis have bring some more links:
kaelisebonrai wrote: EDIT: http://drcsite.org/ <-- that's canon. Like it or not, that /is/ Canon. All the live events ARE canon. Like it or not, they ARE canon. The DRC posts on the forums at http://forums.drcsite.org/ ARE canon, like it or not, they ARE canon. So again: ad. 1) Why are they canon? Because you say so? (A stupid link, directly from mystonline.com would be sufficient, but that would require to lose "bits of alternative reality gaming".) BTW: There still no link to DRC forum from the DRC main site. You might call it "alternate reality gaming experience" I call it "bad web design" (even if it's on purpose). ad. 2) O yeah, most defenetly this is a way to go. This is definitely next level in story telling.
Seriously, if You want to make browser based game You don't force people to install 4GB client for it.
Marten wrote: Regnad Kcin01 wrote: On the other hand, During the historical age of UU, it was discovered that a race of people who call themselves The WE, had inhabited the cavern simultaneously with the D'ni, yet in fact, their civilization pre-dates the D'ni by hundreds of thousands of years. The fact of the existence of The We is not necessarily canonical, yet....... Canon is the part of history that has been determined to be true. The other parts are either unproven or disproven. The story of the WE resides, for now, in "unproven." And (as a Messenger), I feel compelled to observe that it is not accurate to say "it was discovered that a race... had inhabited the cavern simultaneously with the D'ni" when that is unproven. A factually valid way to express what happened would be to say, "people were discovered who claimed to belong to a race that had inhabited the cavern simultaneously with the D'ni." And because that is factual, that is canon. (again, emphasis is mine) I think Marten addressed some om my concerns in his post. If we come back to my example with "Victor Laxman just die today in a car accident" example, then (if I read Marten correctly) there is nothing that would make this canonical fact. And where would be nothing do disprove it as canonical fact. But people starting to talk about it: that would be fact. You could say that facts would be: - people started to talk about his death the next day - there were people who believe it, and people who didn't - there was message from Dr Watson that is not true - there would be people who sad that Dr Watson lie - there would be people claiming to see Laxman the week after - and there would be people claiming that that was imposter In simple wards: harseys which would spread from this simple memo: they would be canonical fact. But hearsays aren't good storytelling tools. As I sad before:
Egon wrote: To put it blindly: if hearsay (and understand You talk here about player to player spread hearsay) is one of the main tools to story telling in an game then You got yourself a serious design flaw...
_________________ Egon #2052375 Guild of Writers
Who You gonna call? Guild of Doorcallers! #5356672
Eder Tsogal/Delin Marathon
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