It is currently Wed Sep 18, 2019 5:20 am

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 133 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 9  Next
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 6:56 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 12:33 am
Posts: 1182
Location: British Columbia, Canada
Tai'lahr wrote:
Actually, it's entirely irrelevant. I see no point in continuing to criticize Cyan about how they chose to execute the technical aspects of this puzzle when the real issue is in their failure to provide enough information to maintain our interest until its conclusion.


To be fair, I'm not criticising Cyan for the way they implemented this. In fact I think it's a really good way of storing the score, and it's implemented so that accessing that score in order to change things is easy.

However, I think it's also clear that (at least client-side) Cyan never had a chance to finish what they were hoping to do with this. It might be a case of delaying until the lake was actually reaching values where it would be lit before adding the code, or if they were ready to add the code in the next release when MOUL was cancelled.

Regardless, at the moment, you can't expect to see any change as a result of dropping pellets (which is perfectly in line with what RAWA said about MOULagain and storyline).


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:05 am 
Offline
Creative Kingdoms

Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 8:06 pm
Posts: 6226
Location: Everywhere, all at once
Paradox wrote:
...which is perfectly in line with what RAWA said about MOULagain and storyline).

I'm just going to go with a theme here: I don't believe that's entirely accurate. Source quote, regarding pellets?

_________________
OpenUru.org: An Uru Project Resource Site : Twitter : Make a commitment.
Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:59 pm 
Offline
Obduction Backer

Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 6:14 pm
Posts: 4248
Location: Digging around in the dusty archives, uncovering Uru history.
Ah, I think I see your point now, Paradox. Since Cyan said that we shouldn't expect any new content in MOULA (unless it reaches CAVCON 5) and since no code can be found to make it happen automatically, you're saying that pellet dropping won't light the lake "at the moment." However, you do acknowledge that the code to implement the changes is probably in the pipeline ready to go. And, we know RAWA is watching the numbers on a daily basis. So, I believe that (regardless of the CAVCON level) once the magic number is hit, Cyan will implement the change.

But, believing that is still not enough to inspire me to participate in this project. If this were RL, someone would have declared the pellets ineffective a long time ago and new methods would have been attempted until some sort of result (good or bad) could be documented.

I know that natural restoration projects take many man hours and many years to implement and make a difference, but all along the way, there are small, but significant results to indicate whether the project is on the right track or not. I'm not an impatient person, but Uru is supposed to be like RL and in this case, it fails.

_________________
Explorers Memorial * In Memoriam


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:28 pm 
Offline
Obduction Backer

Joined: Wed May 10, 2006 5:28 am
Posts: 2266
Excellent analysis, OHB!

I'm not dropping pellets, but that's me. The pellet stuff is always, well, let's just say "annoying" to me. It's hard for me to understand why someone would start something and then not fix it, particularly something that was broken when Cyan still had resources.

Then again, this doesn't "annoy" me as much as the episodes.

_________________
mszv, amarez in Uru, other online games, never use mszv anymore, would like to change it
Blog - http://www.amarez.com, Twitter - http://www.twitter.com/amareze


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 5:10 pm 
Offline
Cyan Employee

Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 10:11 pm
Posts: 274
Location: Chattaroy, WA
Tai'lahr wrote:
I really wish Cyan had invested more in this "storyline" to provide us with the ability to investigate the issue in an IC manner and deduce legitimate goals that we could work towards (or against).

I do, too. In this particular instance, it is unfortunate that I do not control the universe. :)

A few clarifications (major spoilers within):

[spoiler]1) The lake lighting was designed to be an interactive project over a long period of time (measured in months and years, not days and weeks), and the DRC members were meant to be around to help contribute to the algae research (providing nudges and additional information) as time passed. They aren't around now, so you're working even more "in the dark" than you were intended to be, but you're doing great. Keep it up, but only if you are so inclined. :)

2) "Lake Health" is a misleading label for the "Lake Total" number given in the first post of this thread, think of it more as the total "calories" that have been given to the algae since the Cavern reopened. Even though the algae has consumed most of that food in the meantime, that variable is keeping track of the total amount of food deposited since the beginning. Because of the confusion inherent in this number, it was not intended for public display.

3) Though there are repeated claims that there is absolutely no effect in the Cavern, that is not the case, even today. It is true that nothing in the client does anything with that "total calories" number. It was never intended to... directly. The lake lighting project is much, much more complex than "We've given the lake x amount of food since the beginning, so the light level should be y."

[spoiler]In fact, every day that number is entered into an "algae simulator" which then determines what effects it had on the algae colonies that day based on the number of calories that were provided that day, that week, etc.

At the time the Cavern closed, there wasn't enough "live" data for me to want to lock down the algae simulation. It was being done by me offline, and the effects in the Cavern were to be done by hand by me, with the idea that it would some day be able to be automated once I felt the simulation was ready to be locked down.

As it is, the algae simulation is still done by me offline based on the daily pellet contributions. The simulation has been adjusted a few times to make it more forgiving, based on the "live" data collected this past year. The effects in the Cavern are still updated by me by hand, when necessary.

[Note: Since the lake lighting project is still in progress, further details of the simulation will not be released. Thanks in advance for resisting the urge to ask for them. :)][/spoiler]
4) The effects on the lake are subtle, and they are not analog. There are a very limited number of states for the lake light, so the light level in the Cavern is only intended to be changed at specific light level thresholds.

[Aside: This was the major problem with the "Dalek" meter by the lake. The number it reported represented the number of the current lake light threshold, so it would have been months before it ever changed. It was actually counter productive, as it didn't show any of the progress between those thresholds. "Hey, we've been putting in pellets for weeks, but the number on the Dalek isn't increasing at all." IC response, "Oh, the meter is broken, we'll try to fix it at some point." which is a very rough translation of the OOC reality, "It was really just meant to provide evidence that the DRC are tracking the light levels, not to provide immediate, short-term pellet feedback; which it cannot do because the algae simulator is not locked down, and the server currently only has that threshold number available to look at."]

The lake light "threshold" has been updated (raised and lowered) as necessary several times this last year. The effect in the Cavern is visible today. No code update required, as I have stated in previous posts.

5) When the Cavern closed, the lake lighting project was very low priority. The first light threshold was still months away at the earliest, and there were many higher priorities to work on in the meantime. The original intent was for there to be more significant changes at the various light levels. But those updates were never made. Such is life.

What we have available now, as I have said before, is not flashy like the Great Zero activation. It is very subtle and only visible from specific vantage points, but what I have to work with is there and working right now. But if you're doing it for a giant visual reward, you'll be disappointed. [/spoiler]
I know I'm repeating myself from previous posts on this subject, but it bears repeating that this is definitely a "the journey is the reward" type of project. If that isn't your cup of tea, I'm definitely ok with that. Do something else that you enjoy more. Please.

However, if you want to contribute to a long-term, group effort project, keep it up, you're doing great! :)

_________________
CYAN - Richard A. Watson, RAWA v2.0


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 5:37 pm 
Offline
Obduction Backer

Joined: Thu May 25, 2006 1:00 am
Posts: 538
Thank you RAWA or taking the time to more fully explain how the lake lighting project works. I've often dropped into the cavern and thought "humm, the lake seems a tad brighter today," only to be reasurred I was imagining things. I know others have posted similar claims on the formum. It's nice to know we weren't completely wrong. I think. :?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 6:36 pm 
Offline
Obduction Backer

Joined: Wed May 10, 2006 5:28 am
Posts: 2266
Ok, then, if there really is something to look at, something new in terms of illumination, then I'll go look!

_________________
mszv, amarez in Uru, other online games, never use mszv anymore, would like to change it
Blog - http://www.amarez.com, Twitter - http://www.twitter.com/amareze


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:05 pm 
Offline
Obduction Backer

Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2008 4:35 pm
Posts: 43
Location: pick a day
Thank you RAWA, it's good to know that getting all 'pellet buggie eyed' is for more than just a number.

_________________
Life is to short to live the same day twice
KI# 141725


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:09 pm 
Offline
Creative Kingdoms

Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 8:06 pm
Posts: 6226
Location: Everywhere, all at once
That would be entirely accurate. :wink:

Thanks, RAWA.

_________________
OpenUru.org: An Uru Project Resource Site : Twitter : Make a commitment.
Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:17 pm 
Offline
Obduction Backer

Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 8:10 pm
Posts: 2209
Location: CT, US
sideshow118 wrote:
Thank you RAWA or taking the time to more fully explain how the lake lighting project works. I've often dropped into the cavern and thought "humm, the lake seems a tad brighter today," only to be reasurred I was imagining things. I know others have posted similar claims on the formum. It's nice to know we weren't completely wrong. I think. :?


I've actually done the same thing, usually with people saying that it's just me. I usually try to take a snapshot from the same spot as visual reference. I'll have to poke in and see if I can see anything different in the shots.

I guess I'm not crazy after all! Thanks RAWA :)

_________________
Image
The Public Age Project | Owner of Eastern Time Zone's Bevin


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:21 pm 
Offline
Obduction Backer

Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2010 4:08 am
Posts: 1185
ah,, i no will resume pellet dropping!
occasionally. i'm not a huge fan.
(I'm imagining a clip from the "making of myst" seeing RAWA dopping pellets into a tiny virtual lake for simulation...)

_________________
Love Jesus the Lord our God. Also I am not affiliated with HeadSpin or Cyan.
Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:56 pm 
Offline
Obduction Backer

Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 10:13 pm
Posts: 3426
Location: Lost in the void
Well... yes, I'll admit there is that bit on the client side. I just never thought... I mean... it is so old! :shock:

Oh btw, you folks are still imagining it. :wink:

[spoiler]And the current lake score is 86,386,695 :) [/spoiler]

_________________
D'Lanor (ɹǝʇunч puǝƃǝן uɐqɹn)
Image
KI# 33949


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 9:26 pm 
Offline
Obduction Backer

Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 11:02 pm
Posts: 1474
Location: Hanging around with mermaids. And still looking for the elusive Funky Bahro.
In the Interim (which, I have to admit, sounds like the title of a bad anthology series), I'm dropping pellets in a (mostly vain) attempt to draw attention to my various and sundry Neighborhoods. Especially Karaoke, hint hint hint.

_________________
New to Uru? See this video.

KI numbers:
TOOO 24657
Magical Mystery TOOO 643784
Institution TOOO 816645
Karaoke TOOO 816776

~and featuring~

Murinna (the mermaid) 2484723
Mallina (the other mermaid) 3015052

Second Life: TOOO Fall


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 9:42 pm 
Offline
Former MystOnline Moderator

Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2006 3:05 pm
Posts: 4193
Location: 56°2'26", -3°20'28"
/me wonders if the algae simulation model will eventually be open-sourced :? :D

_________________
Image Mac - MOULagain KI#00004826 00004289
In the interests of the environment, this post has been constructed entirely from recycled electrons.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 133 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 9  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron