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PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 7:37 pm 
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Hi,

Are the images resolution of Riven adapted for the iPad or are they just stretched to fit the screen?

Thanks


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 7:51 pm 
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Riven is not built as a universal app, so it runs like any other application built only for the iPhone and iPod Touch. The images are 480x320 to match the size of the smaller devices' screens, and the game runs in a small "window" which can be blown up to 2x. There is some blurriness that comes as a result, and in my opinion it's much more noticeable than it was in Myst (I think because Riven's images have much more fine detail in them that gets washed out at 2x), but it's fully playable.

I would recommend if you do buy it and try to play it at 2x that you go back to 1x when unlocking the Firemarble Domes' combination lock. It's WAY easier to do at the smaller resolution because the track isn't a blur of pixels.

I believe (but am not sure, I've been gone a while) that Cyan has an iPad-native version on their plate, but it's not scheduled for release anytime soon AFAIK, and would still be limited to the resolution of the original game, at just under 640x480, as Cyan has said in the past that there are no high-resolution renders of the entire game, and the ability to re-render them has been lost in the decade and a half since the original release. (and now I feel old, hehe)

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 8:46 pm 
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Thanks a lot Grand Master for that fast and complete answer.
I have such good memories of the original game that I'm afraid I would be disappointed with the result.
640x480 for the original game... It seemed to be more in my memories... I just checked on the box! You are right! It is so long ago now :roll:

I think I'll give a try :D

Thanks again


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 9:31 pm 
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Qlex wrote:
Thanks a lot Grand Master for that fast and complete answer.

Unfortunately, the "Grand Master" did not give you an accurate answer.

Alahmnat wrote:
The images are 480x320 to match the size of the smaller devices' screens

No. The images are 608x392 the same as the originals on the PC/Mac (they were not 640x480, just displayed in a screen that size). The iPhone shrinks the 608x392 images on the fly into the smaller screen of 480x320. On the iPad 2x display (as well as on the retina display) the 608x392 image is expanded to fit 960x640.

Alahmnat wrote:
There is some blurriness that comes as a result

The blurriness is a result of using higher compression to make the app smaller (which for some people is still too large).

Alahmnat wrote:
as Cyan has said in the past that there are no high-resolution renders of the entire game, and the ability to re-render them has been lost

This is true. We only have 608x392 res images and movies and no way to re-render Riven into higher res images.
But we are able to make less compressed images for higher res devices. But we have not determined how we are going to deliver that yet (there are many different options to weigh).

Thanks,
Chogon


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 9:38 pm 
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This might be stupid, but if you have the original Riven sources, couldn't it work in a Mac emulator like Basilisk II or Sheepshaver? I think all rendering was done by the CPU. OS 7 is free from Apple and you might be able to find a version of SoftImage lying around.

With today's processing power, it could render at a pretty fast rate.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 10:20 pm 
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dragossh wrote:
This might be stupid, but if you have the original Riven sources, couldn't it work in a Mac emulator like Basilisk II or Sheepshaver? I think all rendering was done by the CPU. OS 7 is free from Apple and you might be able to find a version of SoftImage lying around.

I must be missing something but how does a 68k or PPC emulator get you closer to rendering something built on defunct SGI workstations?
But even if we had all the old hardware and software and found all the models and textures... it would take a major effort to modify all the cameras and adjust models to work in a higher res. Besides all the massive post-production work done that would have to be redone - like the live action shots, etc. - this is making me dizzy. :-)

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Chogon


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 10:44 pm 
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Chogon wrote:
I must be missing something but how does a 68k or PPC emulator get you closer to rendering something built on defunct SGI workstations?

Oh, I was under the impression that Riven was rendered on Macs. That must have been Myst. Sorry.

Chogon wrote:
But even if we had all the old hardware and software and found all the models and textures... it would take a major effort to modify all the cameras and adjust models to work in a higher res. Besides all the massive post-production work done that would have to be redone - like the live action shots, etc. - this is making me dizzy. :-)

I thought you could just re-render them without changing cameras and models, seeing how there are a few hi-res images of Riven floating around. Guess not :D

Live actors -- yes, I was thinking about that. Seeing how iRiven isn't very smooth in some places already, you could just slap the old ones in. Hey, can't do everything for a 14-year old game :).


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 11:07 pm 
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Chogon wrote:
Qlex wrote:
Thanks a lot Grand Master for that fast and complete answer.

Unfortunately, the "Grand Master" did not give you an accurate answer.

Alahmnat wrote:
The images are 480x320 to match the size of the smaller devices' screens

No. The images are 608x392 the same as the originals on the PC/Mac (they were not 640x480, just displayed in a screen that size). The iPhone shrinks the 608x392 images on the fly into the smaller screen of 480x320. On the iPad 2x display (as well as on the retina display) the 608x392 image is expanded to fit 960x640.

My apologies, I'd forgotten that the image files were left larger for the retina display :oops:. I think the video files (at least the ones I opened on my desktop when I dug a couple of them out of the package while researching a bug report) being 480x320 is what tripped me up there. Sorry again.

Chogon wrote:
Alahmnat wrote:
There is some blurriness that comes as a result

The blurriness is a result of using higher compression to make the app smaller (which for some people is still too large).

I don't mean to question your point, because I do agree, some blurriness is compression-related and evident regardless of whether it's running at 2x, but running the game at 2x on the iPad does yield some obvious blockiness that seems like a result of the pixel-doubling rather than just image compression (plus, as you said, the images are being scaled up from 608x392 to 960x480). It's there in a few other iPhone-only games I've migrated to my iPad to play, particularly those that weren't built for the retina display's higher resolution.

Either way, it's crisper running at 1x than 2x in my experience, but still perfectly playable at either size. I'd have no problems with an iPad app that was several hundred megs larger if it meant clearer images and/or a higher resolution on some of the sprite-based animations though (fire marble domes, I'm looking at you...) :)

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 9:22 am 
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Chogon wrote:
Qlex wrote:
Thanks a lot Grand Master for that fast and complete answer.

Unfortunately, the "Grand Master" did not give you an accurate answer.

Alahmnat wrote:
The images are 480x320 to match the size of the smaller devices' screens

No. The images are 608x392 the same as the originals on the PC/Mac (they were not 640x480, just displayed in a screen that size). The iPhone shrinks the 608x392 images on the fly into the smaller screen of 480x320. On the iPad 2x display (as well as on the retina display) the 608x392 image is expanded to fit 960x640.

Alahmnat wrote:
There is some blurriness that comes as a result

The blurriness is a result of using higher compression to make the app smaller (which for some people is still too large).

Alahmnat wrote:
as Cyan has said in the past that there are no high-resolution renders of the entire game, and the ability to re-render them has been lost

This is true. We only have 608x392 res images and movies and no way to re-render Riven into higher res images.
But we are able to make less compressed images for higher res devices. But we have not determined how we are going to deliver that yet (there are many different options to weigh).

Thanks,
Chogon


But I was under the impression that the iPad doesn't recognize Retina enhanced sizes, so that when the iPhone version is played on the iPad, it's downsampling them to the original iPhone resolution, and then doubling that to the size of the iPad which is making it look really blurry.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 5:54 pm 
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Wasn't Riven made with Softimage 3D and rendered with Mental Ray?
They both exist for Windows.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 5:56 pm 
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Thanks Chogon for those clarifications.
I just bought the game and I'm pretty happy with the result on my iPad.
The iPad is a very good "tool" for such kind of games. I'm sure that a games like Riven that use the full resolution of the iPad would have a big success.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 7:45 am 
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Chogon wrote:
This is true. We only have 608x392 res images and movies and no way to re-render Riven into higher res images.
But we are able to make less compressed images for higher res devices. But we have not determined how we are going to deliver that yet (there are many different options to weigh).


But do you have the movies in a uncompressed or only lightly compressed format? I always hated how Riven had a fairly high resolution "feel" about it, until you triggered a movie (especially going between islands). I know the problem at the time was CD and (DVD) space (and compression technology that was limited by the PC cpu power available to customers at the time). The DVD version was a little better I seem to remember, but not much. I believe now you could probably recompress those videos with a modern compressor (i.e. mpeg4) and get much higher quality without having to increase space much at all. I know the market is pretty small at this point, but I'd love to buy a Riven "Masterpiece" Edition on 1 (or even 2) DVD(s), even if the only difference was getting much higher quality video.


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