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Obduction Backer |
Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2007 11:46 pm Posts: 847 Location: The Cleft, New Mexico
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Shorah everyone,
Although it has been quiet here for a while, I have been by no means idle! In addition to collecting some images of the bahroglyphics in the Ages, I have restarted an old project of ireenquench from back when the D'ni Linguistic Foundation was active. There are some very interesting old discussions on the Wayback Machine from those times: page 1, page 2, page 3, page 4. And here's a link to the video ireenquench took of the Bahro in Noloben as he reacted to the symbol discussed on page 1 of the DLF conversation.
I have captured some videos of my experiments with Bahro responses to various symbols on the Age slates for Noloben, Todelmer, Taghira and Laki'ahn with some *very* interesting results! I am barely scratching the surface for this research, starting with a focus on Noloben. I've been using five different symbols, testing the Bahro responses within Noloben and within Laki'ahn. I am using the results from a known symbol, rain, as a baseline of sorts and then tabulating results for four new symbols.
[Reveal] Spoiler: Here are the five symbols tested, with two variants, for a total of seven symbols assessed for Noloben thus far
[Reveal] Spoiler: Here are the two Age slates I have used for my testing thus far
[Reveal] Spoiler: And here is a summary grid of my data so far Edit: [Reveal] Spoiler: An updated summary grid of my data so far, as of 04 Jul 2013 As you can see in the grid, I am starting by focusing on all the permutations for Noloben-related variables. Following is a breakdown of the results so far.
I began by testing a known symbol for Noloben within two different Ages, which gave me some baseline information.
Rain symbol
[Reveal] Spoiler: The rain symbol is a known data point thanks to Dr. Watson's quest back in 2004-2005 - Noloben slate used in Noloben Age: The Bahro recognizes the symbol and reacts by summoning rain successfully
- Laki'ahn slate used in Laki'ahn Age: The Bahro recognizes the symbol and reacts by returning the slate to the pedestal
- Noloben slate used in Laki'ahn Age: The Bahro recognizes the symbol and reacts by attempting to summon rain, without success CORRECTION: with success in Noloben
- This symbol appears to be recognized in all slate/Age combinations
- The recognition behavior appears to be contextual, with the Noloben slate triggering rain summoning behavior, and the Laki'ahn slate triggering the return of the slate to its pedestal
Symbol #1
[Reveal] Spoiler: The symbol described by Nick as observed by Nick and Sharper in Negilahn back when the indigenous animals there were being systematically wiped out [Reveal] Spoiler: The mirrored Bahro symbol for 8 was being discussed and researched at the DLF as it bore a strong resemblance to the symbol Nick described [Reveal] Spoiler: The Bahro symbol for 8 as seen in Noloben on the rotating pedestals - Noloben slate used in Noloben Age: The Bahro recognizes the symbol and reacts by cowering in fear
- Laki'ahn slate used in Laki'ahn Age: The Bahro appears confused by the symbol and reacts by scratching his head
- Noloben slate used in Laki'ahn Age: The Bahro recognizes the symbol and reacts by shaking his arm and linking away
- The recognition behavior for this symbol appears to be highly contextual; in this instance it seems to be understood only in the context of Noloben, with a complete Noloben context resulting in a fear response and a partial Noloben context resulting in a mildly agitated (?) response
- It's worth pointing out that the DLF video done by ireenquench was testing for the Bahro 8 symbol, rather than the mirrored symbol which I tested here; I have yet to test the Bahro 8 symbol for myself
- I am assuming that for now, the Bahro response is identical for both the 8 and the mirrored 8, which presents another complexity of the Bahro language; it appears that some symbols are understood in mirrored and non-mirrored forms
[Reveal] Spoiler: Mirrored bahroglyphics are readily observed in Bahro architecture; here is an example from the Keep pedestal bases
Symbol #2, partial
[Reveal] Spoiler: The alignment symbol on the Noloben rotating pedestals; since it was difficult to tell if the long vertical line was part of the symbol itself, I started by testing the symbol without that line - Noloben slate used in Noloben Age: The Bahro appears confused by the symbol and reacts by scratching his head
- Laki'ahn slate used in Laki'ahn Age: The Bahro appears confused by the symbol and reacts by scratching his head
- Noloben slate used in Laki'ahn Age: The Bahro appears confused by the symbol and reacts by scratching his head
- This symbol appears usually to be confusing in all slate/Age combinations, though there were a couple of times when the Bahro appeared to recognize the abbreviated symbol and react with fear; this makes it difficult to be sure which response is correct, though in the majority of tests, the Bahro response was of confusion
- Because most of the responses were of confusion, the next step was to test the same symbol and including the vertical alignment line
Symbol #2, full
- Noloben slate used in Noloben Age: The Bahro recognizes the symbol and reacts by cowering in fear
- Laki'ahn slate used in Laki'ahn Age: The Bahro appears confused by the symbol and reacts by scratching his head
- Noloben slate used in Laki'ahn Age: The Bahro recognizes the symbol and reacts by cowering in fear
- This symbol appears to be recognized readily as long as it is presented with the Noloben slate
- Again, the recognition behavior appears to be contextual, in this instance it seems to be understood only in the context of Noloben
Symbol #3
[Reveal] Spoiler: This symbol was found in at least two locations in Noloben; here it is found on the exterior laboratory walls [Reveal] Spoiler: It is also seen along the slate borders - Noloben slate used in Noloben Age: The Bahro recognizes the symbol and responds by moving the slate to the pedestal atop the Noloben laboratory roof
- Laki'ahn slate used in Laki'ahn Age: The Bahro appears confused by the symbol and reacts by scratching his head
- Noloben slate used in Laki'ahn Age: The Bahro recognizes the symbol and responds by moving the slate to the pedestal atop the Noloben laboratory roof
- As with Symbol 2, this symbol appears to be recognized readily as long as it is presented with the Noloben slate
- As before, the recognition behavior appears to be contextual, in this instance it seems to be understood only in the context of Noloben
[Reveal] Spoiler: Symbol 3 is treated as if it is synonymous with the known Bahro symbol for the Noloben laboratory rooftop
Symbol #4, partial
[Reveal] Spoiler: The Minkata symbol isn't seen in Noloben but because of its strong resemblance to Symbol 1, I decided to test it; I started with the completed symbol as seen floating in Minkata - Noloben slate used in Noloben Age: The Bahro appears confused by the symbol and reacts by scratching his head
- Laki'ahn slate used in Laki'ahn Age: The Bahro appears confused by the symbol and reacts by scratching his head
- Noloben slate used in Laki'ahn Age: The Bahro appears confused by the symbol and reacts by scratching his head
- This symbol appears to be confusing in all slate/Age combinations
- Because the responses were of confusion, the next step was to test the same symbol as drawn on the Minkata stelae
Symbol #4, full
[Reveal] Spoiler: The Minkata stelae show this symbol with a surrounding circle - Noloben slate used in Noloben Age: The Bahro recognizes the symbol and reacts by linking away immediately
- Laki'ahn slate used in Laki'ahn Age: The Bahro recognizes the symbol and reacts by linking away immediately
- Noloben slate used in Laki'ahn Age: The Bahro recognizes the symbol and reacts by linking away immediately
- This symbol appears to be recognized in all slate/Age combinations
- The response also appears to be universal, with the Bahro linking away immediately (perhaps to Minkata?)
So far, there are numerous different Bahro responses to slate images: puzzlement, fear, and several recognition responses. Also, it seems the Bahro respond to symbols contextually. For instance, a Noloben-specific symbol must be written on the Noloben slate; if it is written on any other slate, the Bahro is puzzled. And interestingly, a Bahro will respond to a Noloben symbol on a Noloben slate in a different Age (e.g. Laki'ahn). Again, context appears to be important to communication with the Bahro.
And there are implications that mirroring of symbols plays an important part in Bahro writing, though there is far too little data to even begin speculation about how this might work and what it might mean.
Additionally, it appears there are some universal symbols for the Bahro, to which they will react identically no matter what slate is used and where it is used. Thus I am getting the feeling that the Bahro language is complex, that some symbols make sense only in the proper context, else they are "gibberish".
With some of the reactions I've recorded, it's possible to make some rough guesses about meaning; and so far, I've found at least two new symbols that the Bahro react to as if they are other known symbols (one of which is discussed here, Symbol 3). Although I'm not willing to assume such symbols are synonymous just yet, I believe they offer some important clues about the Bahro written language and meaning.
As can be seen, the above is a bare beginning to this research; it could take years to test all the bahroglyphics that are documented thus far. Thoroughness requires that each test be repeated a number of times to ensure the Bahro response is consistent and to ensure the intended symbol is written in a form the Bahro can recognize. My track record for getting the symbols into a recognizable form for the Bahro is less than stellar (meaning, when attempting to draw known symbols in known Ages on the correct slate, I frequently got the puzzled response and had to redraw a number of times before the Bahro understood my chicken scratches!).
I would dearly love to see other explorers pitching in here! The testing itself is fairly straightforward and easy enough to do. Careful records must be kept. Photographs of the testing will do though videos are even better! Even with the initial symbol set documented above, completely testing the slates and Ages would require hundreds of different tests! But these data are priceless for building our information repository toward translating the Bahro language and eventually becoming proficient in communicating with them.
Is there a show of hands? Volunteers out there??
_________________  
Last edited by Ainia on Thu Jul 04, 2013 3:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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