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PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 4:07 pm 
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I think that in this case it could already have helped to post the textures or pictures of the T-shirts on the Open Uru forums. That way more people can look at it and potentially notice any copyrighted designs. This could at least have happened with the non-obduction T-shirts.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 4:50 pm 
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Tai'lahr wrote:
Chogon wrote:
Ah, yes... ok. Admittedly, I got too excited when Chloe contacted me about what she had... OBDUCTION T-SHIRTS <said with much reverb>
But my thought also was that with an update like this it would get people interested in getting a process going to get content submissions rolling (as Tai' pointed out). Sometimes you have to jump the gun to get things rolling (that's my excuse and I sticking to it ;-) )
But yes, there needs to be a bigger discussion.
Okay, lesson learned, so let's begin the discussion. But, first, let's try to imagine how the OpenUru team might be feeling right now:
[Reveal] Spoiler: small rant
What appeared to be a simple update turned into a costly mistake. We can only imagine what kind of a hit the CAVCON took for this and the frustrating thing is that it could have been avoided.

The OpenUru Team has spent years developing a trusted relationship with Cyan - all for the end goal of getting fan contributions (fixes & content) to MOULa with the least amount of work possible on Cyan's end. You might even say that getting the most out of the CAVCON is their goal as well.

JWPlatt has been the guardian at the gate, making sure everyone strictly adheres to the rules so that there could be no doubt Cyan could trust the team to be the final checkpoint for everything destined for MOULa. Mac_Fife continues to maintain regular contact with Cyan and Rarified maintains a shard specifically for testing. That's just the core of the team; there are also many contributors and testers giving their time - for free.

Now, the first real fan content destined for MOULa comes along - the thing they've been working towards - and they're completely bypassed.

Now, can we use this content to begin developing a process with OpenUru? I know everyone is excited about getting the Obduction t-shirt, but the game's release isn't for over a year, so there's plenty of time to get this right (and save money).


I'm sorry that there are those over at OpenUru that feel slighted. Maybe thats because the people at OpenUru don't communicate well with each other. rarified, who runs the shard, had access to all of the files, from the get go, before Cyan did. Both in compiled prp form and raw assets like the max files and texture.zip for the additions. They also had access to the PRPs which was the only thing they requested. But the dropbox folder link that I gave them included all of the assets that would be needed for both Cyan and OpenUru and pretty much anyone I gave the link to to build the same thing. Rarified also knew, via pms, exactly what Cyan was using for the update. The OpenUru team was aware that there was more than just the Obduction Shirt going into the update. They also now had access to all that was going into the update at this point. So any confusion on that issue lied entirely within OpenUru.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 4:51 pm 
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lunanne wrote:
I think that in this case it could already have helped to post the textures or pictures of the T-shirts on the Open Uru forums. That way more people can look at it and potentially notice any copyrighted designs. This could at least have happened with the non-obduction T-shirts.


Re: See Above Post.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 5:25 pm 
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Lesson learned, Chloe, thanks. The extra content beyond the Obduction t-shirt was unexpected. That one shirt was simple to clear. But I had not yet gotten a chance to review the textures, which really is all I needed. That was the case with Cyan's Avatar Asset release and so we already had an existing process for these things. As Chogon says, the excitement probably got in the way, and the update went forward without waiting for review or comment from the OpenUru.org team. Mac_Fife and I are making the point with Cyan.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 7:50 pm 
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KathAveara wrote:
A question: has the Relto book icon in the menu always been an open book? I could swear it's always been closed.


Sorry I missed this earlier. I just checked both the POTS files and MOULa files for the KI, and the blackbar icon for the Relto book has always been open. There's no closed version anywhere that I could see.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 2:08 am 
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ChloeRhodes wrote:
I'm sorry that there are those over at OpenUru that feel slighted. Maybe thats because the people at OpenUru don't communicate well with each other. <snip> So any confusion on that issue lied entirely within OpenUru.
Chloe, I hope you didn't read my post as laying the blame on you; that's not the case at all. So, please don't try to pass the blame on to the OpenUru Team. They communicate quite well with each other and were in the midst of discussing the issue when Cyan decided to do the update without asking if there had been any testing or if there were any issues.
ChloeRhodes wrote:
Rarified also knew, via pms, exactly what Cyan was using for the update.
That's not the impression I got from him, but even if it were true, it wouldn't have mattered; they were moving forward without input from OpenUru.

ChloeRhodes wrote:
lunanne wrote:
I think that in this case it could already have helped to post the textures or pictures of the T-shirts on the Open Uru forums. That way more people can look at it and potentially notice any copyrighted designs. This could at least have happened with the non-obduction T-shirts.

Re: See Above Post.
The "Above Post" you referenced didn't address lunanne's suggestion because all it did was lay the blame on the OpenUru Team. I think this is a good idea.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 2:18 am 
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I guess now that the Obduction KickStarter has succeeded, Cyan has reverted to the usual MO of throwing fan groups away when they're no longer convenient (see also: UU Shard Admins, GoW, Myst Movie). I'd throw you guys a party for joining the club, but I'm afraid there are no perks to the membership (unless you count "ignored emails" as a perk). :|

I suppose my cautious optimism has once again been unwarranted.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 2:38 am 
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It's still a bit too soon to say. Thanksgiving is still going on and Chogon did say they would look into it after the break. So just grab some turkey, stuffing, and just kick back and hope for the best. 8)

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 4:08 am 
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lunanne wrote:
I think that in this case it could already have helped to post the textures or pictures of the T-shirts on the Open Uru forums. That way more people can look at it and potentially notice any copyrighted designs.
I've responded to this point before, but it's been quoted a couple of times, so I want to clarify that I do not recommend this solution. It's still a violation of rights whether it's on MOULa, posted to a forum, including OpenUru.org, or the Minkata test shard. All are public. The review should be done privately before public release. This is how we handled Cyan's Avatar Asset release.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 4:37 am 
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I was going to post a long response about how I'm not blaming OpenUru but it's going to come of as a long rant and I don't wish to rant. I'm not blaming OpenUru, I'm not blaming Cyan. I'm not blaming myself. Mis-communication occurred between the OpenUru team themselves, and between OpenUru and Cyan. I know that I communicated to openuru and Cyan the same stuff, and gave everyone access to the same stuff, so any failure of communication had to have occurred elsewhere. My fault is I shouldn't have pulled in other fan stuff besides my own. I was trying to do everyone a favor and create a master file set with all the Fan Clothing. I suceeded in that, and passed that along to everyone. A mis-communication obviously occurred in that it wasn't discussed publicly this was being done.

lunanne wrote:
think that in this case it could already have helped to post the textures or pictures of the T-shirts on the Open Uru forums. That way more people can look at it and potentially notice any copyrighted designs.
JWPlatt wrote:
I've responded to this point before, but it's been quoted a couple of times, so I want to clarify that I do not recommend this solution. It's still a violation of rights whether it's on MOULa, posted to a forum, including OpenUru.org, or the Minkata test shard. All are public. The review should be done privately before public release. This is how we handled Cyan's Avatar Asset release.


Exactly JW. Which is one of the reasons I chose share the files over dropbox to both Cyan and rarified. So that no one had access except myself and those whom I shared the link with would have access.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 7:55 am 
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JWPlatt wrote:
lunanne wrote:
I think that in this case it could already have helped to post the textures or pictures of the T-shirts on the Open Uru forums. That way more people can look at it and potentially notice any copyrighted designs.
I've responded to this point before, but it's been quoted a couple of times, so I want to clarify that I do not recommend this solution. It's still a violation of rights whether it's on MOULa, posted to a forum, including OpenUru.org, or the Minkata test shard. All are public. The review should be done privately before public release. This is how we handled Cyan's Avatar Asset release.


Okay, that makes sense. I was just thinking that as the people who had already reviewed the shirts hadn't caught it, showing it to a lot of people may help catching these things.

But in the end I don't think anyone is really to blame here. I agree with Chogon, the content creators have to be more aware of this issue. They aren't creating content anymore for themselves; It's not even just for MOULa, the fan shards will use them too. I understand that copying real life logos is tempting, but you can't.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 6:05 pm 
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ChloeRhodes wrote:
Mis-communication occurred between the OpenUru team themselves, and between OpenUru and Cyan.
I'm sorry, but I cannot allow this erroneous statement to go unchallenged and have people believing that the OpenUru Team did anything wrong here. OU team members were in the midst of discussing this issue when Cyan suddenly announced an update. They were all taken by surprise, having assumed that Cyan would wait for them to test the item and comment on it. So, there was no miscommunication within the OpenUru Team or between the OU Team and Cyan because Cyan did not communicate to them before making the decision to go forward.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 6:30 pm 
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Tai'lahr wrote:
ChloeRhodes wrote:
Mis-communication occurred between the OpenUru team themselves, and between OpenUru and Cyan.
I'm sorry, but I cannot allow this erroneous statement to go unchallenged and have people believing that the OpenUru Team did anything wrong here. OU team members were in the midst of discussing this issue when Cyan suddenly announced an update. They were all taken by surprise, having assumed that Cyan would wait for them to test the item and comment on it. So, there was no miscommunication within the OpenUru Team or between the OU Team and Cyan because Cyan did not communicate to them before making the decision to go forward.


Tai, mis-communication over my assets that i shared with rarified and Cyan happened between rarified and members of the OpenUru group. Thats a fact. It did not contribute to the issue between Cyan and OpenUru, but it did in happen.

Mis-communication 2) happened when OpenUru decided to update their shard with said files and not tell the community at large they were testing anything other than a regular update to 918.

As far as the mis-communication between Cyan and OpenUru, yes that was a lack of communication. I personally don't see why Cyan is any under obligation to anyone over at OpenUru to let them know they're updating their own game. But hey, that's just me.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:48 pm 
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Is there any estimate on when this update might be re-upped?

Also... when it is done, since it involves adding clothes to the wardrobe, is there any chance any missing items can also be included in the update?

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 2:46 pm 
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HarveyMidnight wrote:
Is there any estimate on when this update might be re-upped?

No, I don't think so.

HarveyMidnight wrote:
Also... when it is done, since it involves adding clothes to the wardrobe, is there any chance any missing items can also be included in the update?

Was there a complete agreed upon list ever made in that thread? If not then no. If yes, then I think the should be done separately as it's not as easy as the clothing fix.

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