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PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2014 1:09 pm 
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KathAveara wrote:
Emor D'ni Lap wrote:
KathAveara wrote:
I'm personally not a fan of the magic stuff, including the magic bots, since it ruins the immersion IMO.
Sure does, but that's probably fine for those who have already gone through everything URU has to offer.

Incidentally, I have gone through everything Uru has to offer, but in the end, it's still a game in the Myst universe, which to me means that immersion is more important.


Agreed. Give me the same ol same ol over anything new.

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PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2014 1:31 pm 
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janaba1 wrote:
and the community is again inspired to ponder why people might prefer to leave, which could be discussed in a new topic of course, but ... yeah, just saying ... :) )


Eh, I think that, in the end, you can't please everyone. People will leave regardless of what the rest of us do.

Even so, he may come back someday. I've seen quite a few people "leave" and then come back a little while later. We're just that irresistible. :P

All I know is the game has lasted this long and if we keep up all our efforts to keep it running and people interested, it will continue for the foreseeable future. Giving Cyan the occasional gentle poke about adding fan content to MOULa couldn't hurt though. ;)

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PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2014 3:16 pm 
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Doobes2 wrote:
[Reveal] Spoiler:
Image

Image


:D

Hey is that one of my posters there?? Cool!!!

[[Wonder if the other one will make it up??]]

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PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2014 3:43 pm 
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Ainia wrote:
Hey is that one of my posters there?? Cool!!!

[[Wonder if the other one will make it up??]]


Yup! You can thank Nev'yn for passing it along to me for inclusion.

Anyway, back to your regularly-scheduled topic. :D

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PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 5:28 pm 
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KathAveara wrote:
I'm personally not a fan of the magic stuff, including the magic bots, since it ruins the immersion IMO. Like you say, the best solution would be to go talk to these new people.


The study from the U.M. people indicates of all the things that can be done to improve player retention, having person-to-person interactions is the single most effective way.

With a low concurrent login count and a low number of new people coming into the cavern, such campaigns take a huge effort for very little return. It appears such an ambitious effort would have to be maintained indefinitely. Historically, fans providing the manpower for such efforts burn out.

Also, when the effort is in Cyan's MOULa to get people into private shards, it is much harder for volunteers to see results. It also doesn't raise the concurrent login count at MOULa.

There is no doubt in my mind that this person-to-person contact is the single most effective way for improving player retention. But, it is not the only aspect of a game needed for player retention. Until the basic flaw in the Uru game play design is identified and resolved, Uru will remain what it has always been: a fun game that most people play and leave.

Unless people change the game the efforts to mount person-to-person contact campaigns will remain a receipt for fan burn out for those engaged in the campaign, producing the opposite result of what is desired. Since many of us prefer Uru remain as we know it, Uru is relegated to remaining a game for a small number of fans.

We have gone down this road of how to inform people a number of times. And here we are, doing it again. Does that suggest anything?

Long ago the discussion changed to what can change in how we play in the Cavern without changing the basic nature of Uru. Fortunately there are those that considered those suggestions and went to work on making the changes they think will make Uru more enjoyable and hopefully more successful, as in retaining more players.

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PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 6:29 pm 
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Nalates wrote:
The study from the U.M. people indicates of all the things that can be done to improve player retention, having person-to-person interactions is the single most effective way.


Not sure I entirely agree with this. What people want is a game with content, whether this is Cyan (which everyone wants) or fan content. They want places to go and things to see and do. Having played the full game and found all the collectables, they want more places to go and more collectables. They want more of the challenges, puzzles and rewards. If there is a project to add something long-term to the game, all the better. (Lake lighting or some activity which will result in some addition or feature).

I'm not dismissing person-to-person interactions, if it wasn't for those players in Moula would have probably dried up long ago. But there is a limit to this. People predominantly want stuff to see and do. A lot of energy has been put into forming assorted guilds, groups, clubs and whatever, most of them evaporate in time, probably because it is used as an attempt to hold people's attention in the game by way of encouraging a common interest (for example). But very few of them last the distance. The members disappear because ultimately they played the content of the game and found there is no more to be had (at least for now). Those who remain are but a tiny minority of the entire Cavern population who enjoy the person interactions - after all, having long finished everything, that is all there is left.


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PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 7:16 pm 
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Nalates wrote:
There is no doubt in my mind that this person-to-person contact is the single most effective way for improving player retention. But, it is not the only aspect of a game needed for player retention. Until the basic flaw in the Uru game play design is identified and resolved, Uru will remain what it has always been: a fun game that most people play and leave.
I'd absolutely agree here ... :P

One of the main and 'basic flaws in Uru' as you've said, always was and partially still is, and not necessarily only in 'game play design' as I see Uru as a quite open and neutral platform for many inventions and enhancements (within the confines of Cyan's own license-wise limitations etc.), I believe, is what you've said with this statement
Nalates wrote:
Unless people change the game the efforts to mount person-to-person contact campaigns will remain a receipt for fan burn out for those engaged in the campaign, producing the opposite result of what is desired. Since many of us prefer Uru remain as we know it, Uru is relegated to remaining a game for a small number of fans.
And besides that I'd like to add that I many times got the impression, also back in the days, maybe not necessarily too much nowadays, that more or less (un)consciously quite an amount of explorers would not 'r e a l l y' welcome a considerable influx of many new explorers, means for Uru to become much more crowded, even if the necessity for the compensation of the natural fluctuation is accepted, there is an underlying negation and resistance, which also has an impact not to be underestimated IMHO ...

Much is in the works and being elaborated on on so many fronts resp. behind the scenes, which will change and enhance or even expand Uru, not necessarily and immediately 'only' on the MOULa shard, but it will there too, in succession, there's always Cyan and the community to consider and consult ... Just keep it positive and enjoy everything, everyone in his/her own way ... :D

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PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 7:26 pm 
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Those two things, content and interaction, are very related. New content will bring more people, greater activity, and more interaction as a natural consequence.

The Great Flaw is the same one all products face: content is hard. It takes times and it's expensive unless you have the crowd source it for you. That's what makes Fan Content crucial here. And it will work just as well even with folks for whom the social aspect is not important.

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PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 8:23 pm 
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Nalates wrote:
The study from the U.M. people indicates of all the things that can be done to improve player retention, having person-to-person interactions is the single most effective way.
There are many things that I now like about Second Life, but the main reason I stay (and the only reason I went there in the first place) is because of the Uru Community there. And, the best part about the way it is there is that even if we didn't hold events, we'd still be in frequent contact because of the chat system. We can belong to as many as 42 different groups with the ability to have a group chat with each. And, the best part about that is that if I don't want to participate in the group chat, all I have to do is hit the X in the upper right corner of the chat box. Not a day goes by that someone doesn't open the D'ni Refugee group chat with a "Shorah" or "Good Morning" or other greeting. Then several people return the greeting and pretty soon we're chatting about the weather or another topic, tossing about some good natured teasing or offering comfort to someone who needs it. IMO, it's the reason the community there is so tight-knit.

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PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 8:30 pm 
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As we're talking about player retention now, I'd like to mention that I have a very strong opinion about people who support MOULa* but stay in Second Life. If you support MOULa, be in MOULa. To me your being in Second Life and not MOULa cancels out any support you claim to have for MOULa and doesn't help player retention in MOULa if you're all in Second Life.

(rant over, /me climbs down from soapbox)

* yes I know you said Uru

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PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 10:09 pm 
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Apart from the OP's intentions [as knowing Sam and reading a bit between the lines, he has
been insulted and ridiculed and thus decided to leave MOULa but yeah... why would anybody
care about that]... This has become somewhat interesting.

Now, why would somebody passing an ever so slowly sinking life raft [that of MOULa] shout
out: "Hey, hang in there! We support you all the way!" [to the bottom perhaps] and then just
happily pass us stubborn and stupid who cling to the sides of our raft... And see you sail away
towards the sunset on the M/S Second Life... A sleek cruiser made out of shiny stainless
steel and blazing neon lights...

Sorry, I don't see that as valid point of view!

Some of us try to create events in MOULa. Some of us try to keep up peoples interest for MOULa.
Even Cyan stated [at the I.H.P.Open Hood Day, via greydragon] they still keep a keen eye on
MOULa and want to keep it alive and discuss it at their meetings...

But talk is cheap and it's very easy to stay away if you've lost the spark... Many might have and
many just stay away. I don't think I will give up just yet... I still have some ideas I want to try
out. Will be presenting some at the next All Guilds Meeting...

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PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 11:23 pm 
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Alien wrote:
I have a very strong opinion about people who support MOULa* but stay in Second Life. If you support MOULa, be in MOULa. To me your being in Second Life and not MOULa cancels out any support you claim to have for MOULa
Alien, I felt the same way about the Uruites in SL during the MOUL/GameTap era, and if MOUL hadn't shut down, I'd have never gone to SL. But, MOUL did shut down and I wanted to stay in touch with the community, but I didn't want to play another game, so SL was the only option for me. For several months, all I could talk about was wanting to go home to Uru. But, it was almost two years - 22 long months - before MOULa returned and by then the Uru Community in SL had become my home. I did come back to MOULa. I was there at the Ferry Landing to greet people the first night. Since then, I've created more than a dozen avatars, dropped thousands of pellets, helped newcomers, and attended many, many events. But, the friends I've made in this community over the years aren't there on a regular basis and without them, there's just not enough to keep me coming into the cavern on a regular basis, either.

So, please don't judge me until you've walked in my shoes.

In any case, you seemed to have missed the point I was making about the chat system in SL. If MOULa had a chat system like SL, I'd probably be logging in to the cavern every day to chat with people. My apologies if that wasn't clear.

Support for Uru comes in many forms. Some donate, but never log in. Some can't donate, but create events and things to do in the cavern. Some encourage others to do those things. Some carry on the legacy in other places and promote the game to new communities.

I'm still a member of this community and always will be whether I log in to Uru or SL or nowhere but these forums. And, it hurts to be told that my support for the community is negated just because I choose to spend time with the Uru Community in SL.

And, you wonder why I don't like to come into the cavern, anymore...

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PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 11:53 pm 
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JWPlatt wrote:
The Great Flaw is the same one all products face: content is hard. It takes times and it's expensive unless you have the crowd source it for you. That's what makes Fan Content crucial here. And it will work just as well even with folks for whom the social aspect is not important.


No, new content ruins our immersion and doesn't really benefit anyone. Heck if they changed so much as one texture in the game or added a new hat that wasn't made by Cyan it wouldn't be Uru anymore. :(

Fan content is just a myth. The companies who use it claim that it's a big success, but it's coincidental more than anything. ;) Also, they don't function the same way MOULa does so, they don't actually matter.

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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 12:43 am 
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Uru players want more, new, different puzzles of the complexity, depth and visual attraction of Uru and the Myst sequence. The community is approaching that in the best of the fan ages right now - an achievement which is in itself remarkable. On top of that is the social aspect - Uru attracts many types, but mainly those with intellectual curiosity and a desire to explore together, inhibited by the premature ending of the full Uru Live experience. We're generally archaeologists, linguists, adventurers, explorers - in search of enlightenment and new wonders to see. Kipling wrote a couplet

Something hidden. Go and find it. Go and look behind the Ranges,
Something lost behind the ranges. Lost and waiting for you. Go!

(part of the chorus of "The Explorer". A poem that has always affected me strongly)

that, for me, encapsulates the urge, the imperative to look beyond what is already known.

I think the best way to retain players is to make them aware of the fan-created content and help them if they decide to go for it. In my opinion, the Aegura plaza crowd is the best place to do that, for as long as it contains enough people willing to help and with a good basic knowledge - AND the confidence to ask for help themselves if a question is outside their current knowledge. That way, everybody wins.

The plaza is a place that any Uru player can find, and should be a natural first stop for anyone who has explored using Uru-CC or MOUL. Specialist advisors may want a separate location (a hood, say) for their own use, but the plaza is still the best place to start, I think.

Simply suggest that interested new players go to the plaza and ask for help. Worked for me. And it will stand or fall on the community's willingness to be available to provide that help. Which is something that I expect the MOUL community is well-disposed towards, after all the whole ethos of the MOUL game is to combine with others to solve problems... and to learn about each other too - I'm convinced that was the hope behind the creation of the neighbourhoods, places where like-minded people can gather and chat, no matter who they are or where they come from.

To hijack a different quote, we've done the impossible - kept a commercially failed game alive and active because we have strong feelings that it should not die, and off of that created a community with the skills, energy and commitment to realise our hopes.

If we all concentrate our efforts around the plaza as a starting point, then we can all gain from the concentration of effort.

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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 1:26 am 
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In my opinion, Tai'lahr, has said it best.
Every word she has used is true to every point.
Moula can only be played for so long.
Are we suppose to delete our books to start over and over?
Are we suppose to create dozens of new avatars to do the same
thing, over and over?
I have loved the time I have spent in Moula.
I usually try to show up for the DMR's music on Saturdays.
They are the best of the best.
But, again how long can you play the ages over and over.
The Cavern Plaza? I think not. Not a lot of interesting things go on there to me.
Play Moula. Enjoy all you can. But, still, people will move on as in any game.

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