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 Post subject: Keep it in Game
PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 10:00 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:34 pm
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okay...call me boring, a stick in the mud...and all other finds in the Thesaurus...

I reallllly dislike using outside sources for chat..Teamspeak....streaming.
How are we going to promote the game if we say, by our actions, that game audio is horrid??
There are peeps who, for their own reasons, tech or personal, that do not like to use stream...especially.
If someone pops into a hood, with a population on the Nexus viewer, they expect something to be happening.
Very disheartening to step into a hood, and find a bunch of frozen peeps...no one moving, no one talking, no one texting....and I know 9/10, most are not even watching the game screen...they are multi-tasking, and on the stream site.
This is disheartening, as I said, even for a veteran player, like myself...forbid if a newbie should stumble into this scene...they will never come back.
I want to participate in the Anniversary...but it is being streamed...soooooooooooooo.
If we truly love the game...............
Celebrate its greatness...............
Just saying...my personal pet peeve..lol
Luv angelmyst

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 Post subject: Re: Keep it in Game
PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 10:07 pm 
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I agree Angel.

But, I think that is the way it is now in the game.

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 Post subject: Re: Keep it in Game
PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 11:47 pm 
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Hi angelmyst, I want to understand what you're saying, but I think I'm missing something because I don't see how streaming is an issue. But, then, I'm from the GameTap era and I know a lot of things have changed since then, so maybe there's something I'm not aware of. Are you talking about events that require some interaction between players being handled through an outside source such as TeamSpeak or Skype? If so, I would totally understand that. But, if it's the streaming music, I don't see how it interferes with interaction among the listeners. I can guarantee you that if you come to an event broadcast by Ktahdn/Lord Chaos, you won't find a room full of zombie avatars. (Well, if we're sitting still, it's only because the music is calm, but you can bet the chat will be active.) :)

So, is it not about the music streaming, but maybe something else?

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 Post subject: Re: Keep it in Game
PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 12:13 am 
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So that's why people are just standing around, but I never hear anything or see any text.
I just got back into the game and I was honestly confused.

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 Post subject: Re: Keep it in Game
PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 1:19 am 
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Its not just streaming music, which I understand, and have my own preferences for that medium, but guests, interviews, and even the wedding recently held in Kirel, are all on Streamed sources... Game sound is not the best, but it will not get any better if the problem is skirted, and ignored.

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 Post subject: Re: Keep it in Game
PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 6:13 am 
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I agree with Angelmyst and I fully understand her being discontent about that situation. The usage of skype or other chatting devices outside the game are great as long as you do a specific quest or task in faraway ages. I had chat with a buddy a lot before the vault wipe and he was chatting with me during a gameplay of one of my many quests. He was also in the same time using skype. That was ok since he was playing with other players (party of 2 or 3) in a faraway age or private city and was using skype to interact with the other.

But when it comes to the time when you meet others, you are surrounded by others, it's completely rude and anti-social! The easiest parallel I can make is going to a dinner night out in family or with friends and having half to three quarters of the guests around the table having their noses in their smartwhatever chatting to whoever (even... with some on the same table!!!), it's a complete turnoff for me! If I want to "talk to you without seeing you", there's a nice device developped a century or so ago, it's called a telephone...

So if we come back to the game of URU, the inner chat system & voice system is the equivalent of civilised peeps around a table who forget about the smartwhatever device and interact with others face to face. Having a skype chat system running aside just put you in the incomfortable situation that you are among zombies like Tai'lahr says.

I've been in such situations, entering in a hood and saying: "Hello!" with no answers back or very late. I told some other explorers that those guys were rude who then told me that their gang were using "Skype", they should be forgived, I said back: "that's what I've telling you, they are rude!". I won't forget them because they use "Skype", they can do it...elsewhere or in a private age or in a "public" hood turned private!

One small silly example that come to my mind, in May 2010 (2 months after my entrance in MOUL), I was about to play a game made by Michel (MisterMagic) with an explorer. She invited me in her Relto. I went there and saw another player standing there. That player was not talking or chattting or anything. I was annoyed and shy by that situation and tried to keep my focus on the hostest. After maybe 5 minutes, I decided to ask a question and that other explorer answered me back, I was puzzled but I learned 2 things that day: 1st) there can be a possibility to have an alter avatar ( :lol: I evolved since then... :wink: ) and 2nd) the feeling of being left beside is unbearable. (for those who didn't catch it... it was her and her and me so she didn't feel the need to say to me "Hello!" a 2nd time or even to interact with me with the 2 of hers...)

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 Post subject: Re: Keep it in Game
PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 7:22 am 
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angelmyst wrote:
How are we going to promote the game if we say, by our actions, that game audio is horrid??


Exactly. Why would you make someone think that the in game voice chat is sub-par (through lack of use) when they can figure it out for themselves? Like everything else in the Myst series it should be an adventure to find these details. Heck, before obtaining the ability to use voice chat the user should be required to go to a particular age and find a "KI upgrade" that enables you to use your voice. It's immersive and it would count as a content update! :D

As for running those streaming programs in general (Winamp, TeamSpeak, Skype, etc) I wonder if it would be possible for the Uru client to run a check and shut off those unnecessary processes. And if you try to open the programs back up again have it close the game.

That would solve so many problems.

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Last edited by Tomala on Mon Feb 02, 2015 9:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Keep it in Game
PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 9:21 am 
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Also, try using the voice chat with a MacOS wrapper :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Keep it in Game
PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 11:46 am 
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Tomala, anyone reading this, is most likely not a newbie, who does not already know the chat quality in game.
Also, since the other chat means are totally external, there would be no wah for URU client to detect and shut them off.
Like it was mentioned, using them to chat when your bud is in another age makes total sense. I have seen new players come into game having found the game and been chatting on Skype, friends who live far away. They chat and play.
My focus is on open, organized activities that have all the chat on stream.
Like our up coming anniversary.

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 Post subject: Re: Keep it in Game
PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 1:24 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2011 8:19 am
Posts: 299
Location: ... Gone Fishing...
Ummm... not sure I should comment on this but I do it anyway. I think:

1. // Using URU's "voice chat" function to stream Music, Chat etc. can't be
done. For that it's so poor quality, it gives me a rash! And also, to be able
to hear the speaker/player you'd have to stand in front of him/her and not
too far away and never move. 30 feet away and you hear nothing! That's a
tech issue WE just can't solve so we have to live with it and work around it!


2. // When I've been co-arranging Events with Music [over 3 years] Music has
always been Streamed over internet. I have never seen it being as a hinder
for people to have Fun, Dance and CHAT! What sometimes makes chat difficult
at events, is the lag when an Age gets crowded with some 50+ people or more.
Scrolling the Age Players List, or to Buds to make a PM gets almost impossible!
So yet again we're here hampered by the severe tech limitations of an over 10
years old creation...


3. // Streaming Music over internet these days is the only way to go I think
[as in cases like the upcoming 5 Years Anniversary]. I'm well aware that some
might not have the tech resources to be able to listen to everything. But neither
have I, but I use VLC player, RealPlayer and browser [Firefox] for listening.
Some streams work in one of them but not in others. So try different solutions...

4. // In fact, I'll go as far as saying, IF we did NOT Stream Music or or such, and
use internet in so many ways, for Broadcasts, Skype planning discussions or just
for getting people to participate on Live Chat... If not, we would never have any
kind of an events any more...


5. // Five is a good number, eh? I'm not sure what you refer to Angelmyst, to
be honest. As people in Hoods who do not chat or speak [or do anything at all]
is NOT a problem caused by all that I've mentioned above. There are sometimes
the same happening in the City, a crowd of 20 peeps and nobody Chats, in Public
at least. But there might actually be a lot of Chat going on in PM's or between
Buds or Neighbors, you just don't hear it...


So, as I see it, let's not confuse and mix together two totally different issues!!
The lack of some explorers interaction and how to encourage that is one thing!!.

The means, using internet to enhance the experience and create events that
everybody can take part of, is a totally different thing!!

And btw. I'm sure Tomala was 'ironic' in his reply. I'm not in mine here, now...

And also btw. I did send Invites to all at Cyan HQ on the 5 Years Event. To
come and join us and have a good time with us explorers, or just listen to the
streams! Without the streams... Well... you can draw your own conclusions...
[at he Open Hood Day in April -14 some Cyan'tist visited the Event, and the
streams were played at Cyan HQ]

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Last edited by m.a.x.2.0 on Mon Feb 02, 2015 1:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Keep it in Game
PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 1:36 pm 
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Ty Max....
Food for thought.

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 Post subject: Re: Keep it in Game
PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 1:58 pm 
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m.a.x.2.0 wrote:
And also btw. I did send Invites to all at Cyan HQ on the 5 Years Event. To
come and join us and have a good time with us explorers, or just listen to the
streams! Without the streams... Well... you can draw your own conclusions...
[at he Open Hood Day in April -14 some Cyan'tist visited the Event, and the
streams were played at Cyan HQ]


Ah good. If Cyan joins in then it must be ok. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Keep it in Game
PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 2:32 pm 
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Tomala...lol, you cheeky rascal...lol
:P

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 Post subject: Re: Keep it in Game
PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 6:06 pm 
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Very nice statement and intervention, Max, with many valid points, if I may add my 2 cents here too ... :P

Tomala is a beautiful young lady btw, but yeah, cheeky and smart, nevertheless ... :mrgreen:

I'd say that it is quite common nowadays that folks are constantly chatting and texting through various means like Skype, all the social networks, IRC, Teamspeak and whatsoever ... They're doing it all day long and everywhere, in the streets, in the subways, in restaurants etc. etc. lol ... I believe you know what I'm about to say ... new explorers won't necessarily be completely irritated or confused by that, maybe they're even hanging out themselves on Google+, Fb, Twitter or so, or talking on Skype etc. when linking into the cavern or into the city after having received their KI ...

At parties there is no problem at all as most, even when chatting or texting through other means, they're having an eye on the screen for who's coming in and to dance and maybe add to the in-game text chat etc., maybe outside of party events that should be taken into consideration too, but we cannot expect of anyone to behave like that, esp. when Uru's quite empty outside of events, IMHO ...

And now here are some hugs for angelmyst and Max and all who care so much for everything and everyone all year round ... :D

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 Post subject: Re: Keep it in Game
PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 6:33 pm 
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Unattended avatars have been around since I started playing Until Uru in 2005. It's their choice.

In those days we had two ways to bring music to the Cavern. Whether this should be done at all is another question, and one that has been discussed peripherally. One way was to use the in-game voice chat, as I did for my first broadcast because it was available to anyone. That's all that's good about it. Its sound quality is so bad--when it works at all, and doesn't cause people to crash out--that comprehending what's said is a lot of work. So, we started using Teamspeak, because its 26k data rate was better than the in-game voice.

We handled the potential exclusion of people by providing time before each event to explain and help people download and install TS if they needed it. There were help pages in the forums, too. It was a hurdle, but we intentionally used it and provided help in making the jumps over it. That's what gave birth to the "leader" music program, which I originally called "channel-finder music."

Shoutcast was a revolution. Now we could have real music.

Through all of this, what people chose to do with themselves was a separate issue. Some choose to park their avatars and go off and do something else. I don't understand this, but it's their way. All I can say is that if my avatar is in the game, then my hands are on the keyboard. Well, except for necessary quick breaks, of course. :) Most of the people who come to events are "there;" they have come to the event because they want to, and they choose to participate. None of this can be forced.

The same "zombie" behavior is true in Second Life: many people park an avatar but don't participate in any other way. I even find people who have parked avatars in Guild Wars. These are easy to find: just look for the "dead avatar" marker on the map. Another facet of this little conundrum is that perhaps silence is better than speaking. Some of the public conversations I've heard are an excellent argument for having no public chat at all.

So... people choose. I can pretty much guarantee that if you come to a planned event in the Cavern, you'll find at least some active avatars.

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