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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 1:14 am 
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If you want to play old DOS games, your way will go to DOSBOX. Any Zork should run with that.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 5:12 am 
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I've never understood why command prompt wouldn't run dos games given that its like the continuation of dos. I wonder if you could do something with windows power shell along the same lines.


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 Post subject: Re: Return to Zork
PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 6:35 am 
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The command prompt isn't the continuation of DOS, it's the continuation of COMMAND.COM. There's a subtle difference there. ;) Even though the COMMAND.COM it what you normally think of as DOS, there was also the entire DOS operating system. (Which I never really used, so don't ask me on any of the details.)

At some point Microsoft moved from DOS-based/compatible systems (3.1, 95, 98, ME) to Windows NT-based systems (NT, 2000, XP, and everything after that) and with that parts of the DOS drivers required for such old games were removed (or rather not ported over). That doesn't mean that DOS programs don't run at all, they just don't always run properly.

Then there's also the migration from 32-bit to 64-bit. Microsoft kept 16-bit process support (I think that's what you'd usually use in DOS) in 32-bit Windowses (on Windows 10 32-bit you can still run the old COMMAND.COM) but again never ported it to 64-bit systems.

In the end this isn't just because some greedy company forces us to use their new technology, but because they only kept the old technology for so long because they could do it with little effort. When they couldn't anymore, it was already ten years old or so, and at that point it wasn't worthwile to fully port it to new systems. Microsoft isn't the only company doing this either, Apple dropped "Classic" Mac OS application support in 10.5 and PowerPC emulation in 10.6. This means that you can't play Myst for Macintosh on new Macs anymore either.

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 Post subject: Re: Return to Zork
PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 10:43 am 
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cpt-jericho wrote:
If you want to play old DOS games, your way will go to DOSBOX. Any Zork should run with that.

Perhaps a better choice would be a DOSBox launcher like DBGL.

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 Post subject: Re: Return to Zork
PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 5:27 pm 
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:shock: :shock: :shock:

cpt-jericho!! :D
dgelessus!! :D
korovev!! :D
(again)

Thank you for giving precious information!!

The article of dgelessus is particularly interesting!!!!! :o
I intend to look for a game based on your information.

Thanks,
Chiro


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 1:18 pm 
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I agree, Chiro, this is all really great information, thanks everyone ... :P

I'm impressed by dgelessus' great and very short history of the development of our operating systems, but what is absolutely awesome and very much appreciated is korovev's pointer to the DGBL, an easy to use Graphical User Interface for the DOSBox, which is really a very precious thing to have, if you're not knowledgeable in or willing to work with DOS command line operations ... 8)

It is a multi-platform interface for Windows, Mac OSX and Linux (both x86 and x64), which comes in many languages and with an already integrated DOSBox ... So you just have to set profiles for your games (they say DGBL can handle thousands of them), where you can even receive information for them from the internet, and you can configure everything, your DOSBox, it supports multiple DOSBox versions, the graphics, the sounds etc. etc. in many many ways, and you can do all of this very easily, just as you're used to on your Windows/Mac/Linux OS ...

That way I was able to once again look into my very first computer game 'Lost Eden' by Cryo and Virgin Interactive, released 20 years ago ... Yeah, that's where I was coming from, I just loved their games, like the Atlantis series afterwards, the 'Ring: The Legend of the Nibelungen' etc. etc., which are Myst-like (or more Syberia-like) but not really for Myst/Riven fans, because they're too easy I suppose lol, but I prefer the magic and beauty over heavy puzzle solving lol ... :)

However, yes, great and valuable information, and everyone, who didn't know this like me, can now grab their old CDs and DOS games, before discarding and getting rid of them once and for all lol, and play them once again in a slightly better quality on nowadays big, high quality monitor screens ... :D

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 5:28 pm 
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While we’ve on the topic of emulation, those of us on the Mac side can keep their games too, by installing them in a virtual drive with SheepShaver (PowerPC) or Basilisk II (680x0, for very old games). And then there are emulators for Amiga, Atari, C68, Spectrum, etc, but let’s not get too OT now.

The drawback is realizing how small their windows look on today’s monitors :lol: .

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 Post subject: Re: Return to Zork
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 7:50 pm 
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Korovev, with your proposed great DGBL one can easily play everything in full view and a higher resolution, it's great, or of course you can play the tiny original version lol ... and in general I'd say, this topic is about being capable of playing very old, usually not anymore playable games on a modern pc or other systems, so, nothing around this subject I'd consider as ot ... :D

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 Post subject: Re: Return to Zork
PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 5:30 pm 
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Some of the nerdy people in this community keep old computers around to run old games and other programs on. :)

People here seem to have an accurate description of why Dos games won't run on modern OSs. The bitrate is the main reason, Windows XP did have a good Dos emulator which was removed in the rarely used 64-bit edition of XP. It remained missing in all newer 64-bit OSs. I'm not sure if it is present on 32-bit Windows 10 or not.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 6:11 pm 
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Yes, the 32-bit Windows 10 still has the DOS emulation (ntvdm.exe). Though I can no longer play the original The Settlers on Windows 10 (which I still could on Windows XP on a different computer), because apparently my device doesn't support fullscreen mode. Again, main reason why they kept it is probably "it still works well enough", but they didn't want to invest extra work in porting the 16-bit emulation to 64-bit.

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 Post subject: Re: Return to Zork
PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 6:48 pm 
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I've heard the full screen thing is a limitation of certain video card drivers.

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 Post subject: Re: Return to Zork
PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 12:44 am 
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Speaking of emulation, that makes me wonder if one could run a virtual desktop of an older version of windows or even dos itself (in the old format where its literally an os) to get these older games to work?


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 1:26 am 
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I have MS-DOS 6.22, Windows 3.1, 95, NT 4.0, 2000 and XP installed under VirtualBox, so yes, that is definitely possible. ;) Anything since NT 4.0 is supported by VirtualBox's guest additions, which means that you'll have proper screen resolution, shared folders and clipboard, mouse pointer sync with the host OS, and other nice features. For Windows 95 you can find drivers to get the screen resolution higher than 800*600, but that's about it. For DOS you really should use a proper DOS emulator like DOSBox, unless you're looking for an actual MS-DOS. If you just want to play an old game, use DOSBox.

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