Upcoming Mac OS Catalina and MOULa

Jamie Marchant · **Posted:** Thu Jul 04, 2019 7:25 pm

Ok if you embed tuns of full-sized graphics in your word document it could become huge. I know about the other things.

Oh yeah for the VM I forgot, it would run Ubuntu Linux and Wine in Ubuntu, not Windows. (that way it's free)

korovev · **Posted:** Fri Jul 05, 2019 1:18 am

Heh, the point about stuffed emails reminded me of a time when some people would send empty emails with the entire body in a Word document – without any formatting too :roll:

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Of course, Apple isn’t particularly worried about desktop gamers migrating away from their platform, as they know very well they missed that boat; but they can more than compensate those losses with the mobile market (which they’re planning to port back to desktop).

As bad as it is for retrogaming, building more walls around their garden works perfectly well with that strategy. Besides, UWP is designed as a closed ecosystem too. It could be argued that closed ecosystems have been the normality for most of video gaming history.

As for Vulkan, there’s always MoltenVK (and DXVK); it’s not the same as a native implementation, but still an option.

Edit: in other news, Phoenicis already has a partially working solution

boblishman · **Posted:** Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:58 am

**bump** .... anyone?

korovev · **Posted:** Tue Oct 08, 2019 1:25 pm

https://www.codeweavers.com/about/blogs ... ber-3-2019

Do not update yet.

boblishman · **Posted:** Wed Oct 09, 2019 3:35 pm

It is with a heavy heart that I've decided to upgrade to Catalina. Obviously, this means that all my Moula/Shard games will no longer work and I will be afk until (if?) such times that the guys at CodeWeavers come up with a solution.

I know that it was Apple's decision to cease 32 bit application support and not Cyan's.
I'm also aware that I COULD partition my hard drive and use a copy of Mojave to continue to play MOULa and the shards but, and it's a BIG but, that really doesn't work for me.

I've tried to maintain my loyalty to this community over the last 15 years but I'm afraid that this may be coming to and end. I'm no longer sure that the end justices the means.

But never say never.

I hope to be back someday ... meantime, have fun guys. I'll miss you.

Kneb · **Joined:** Thu Sep 13, 2007 9:11 pm **Posts:** 78

I am a Mac user, always been. But I'm also happy to have a Windows Laptop. Having both platforms is a kind of security, if one fails the other might work.

But to buy a Windows device just to be able to play MOULa seems not very necessary, well, it depends on how much time you spend in MOULa. It can also be like a principle, you think that you have the right to play MOULa on your Mac.

In this case if you update you can't anymore, that's the fact.

Kneb · **Joined:** Thu Sep 13, 2007 9:11 pm **Posts:** 78

Well

If Cyan (with help) made the transition from older 32 bit games into 64 bit,like the old myst games to work today with the Kickstarter for sale. Why can't they upgrade MOULa the same way?

Just a thoght

Kneb

Jamie Marchant · **Posted:** Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:45 pm

Do you mean a Kickstarter for a free product*? on the surface that sounds like a workable idea but for some reason I have a feeling it's not workable.

* Unless we get new content I am not paying for MOULa.

UPDATE: If I recall correctly fans have asked Cyan about Kickstarters for MOULa in the past and Cyan said no but I can't remember why.

korovev · **Posted:** Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:30 am

Kneb wrote:

Why can't they upgrade MOULa the same way?

Because that would require a 64-bit version of (legacy) PhysX, or some other third-party dependency.

Jamie Marchant · **Posted:** Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:17 pm

I am not sure what all the dependencies are, but if you did a big enough Kickstarter, could you not recode the game to use alternative 64-bit versions.

(though really it would be probably better for people to fund a project that lets 32-bit applications run on 64-bit Macs ,I see this as the "real" issue)

korovev · **Posted:** Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:09 am

Jamie Marchant wrote:

Unless we get new content I am not paying for MOULa.

Kneb · **Joined:** Thu Sep 13, 2007 9:11 pm **Posts:** 78

You can't trust that Windows will support old 32 bit games forever, it might go 64 bit only too in the future, then MOULa will be doomed for everyone. If you update.

AdamJohnso · **Posted:** Fri Oct 11, 2019 6:47 pm

How many people even play MOUL on macOS? Is it a nontrivial amount? I can only think of about four or five users off the top of my head.

The major challenge in producing a 64-bit client at present is the game's dependency on PhysX 2.6.x, which existed before 64-bit operating systems were commonplace, as such, only a 32-bit version of this is available. While it is possible to replace this component, that teeters on the edge of being a lot of work. You will find that, aside from Chogon, the people who were paid to work on the Uru game engine by and large no longer work for Cyan. Cyan uses the Unreal Engine now, and it would be very surprising to see them return to what Rand himself described as the "junk car on the lawn" for any purpose. The best chance you have, I think, is to somehow convince a fan developer to spend time on a Windows 64-bit client. Then you can continue to use whatever wine wrapper you like.

Kneb wrote:

You can't trust that Windows will support old 32 bit games forever, it might go 64 bit only too in the future, then MOULa will be doomed for everyone. If you update.

Sounds like someone doesn't quite understand the Windows ecosystem very well. Microsoft dropping support for 32-bit components is unlikely at best.

Tomala · **Posted:** Fri Oct 11, 2019 8:35 pm

Kneb wrote:

You can't trust that Windows will support old 32 bit games forever, it might go 64 bit only too in the future, then MOULa will be doomed for everyone. If you update.

There will come a time when 32 bit will be put to pasture much like 16 bit was, but as long as there is still demand for 32 bit applications, as well as developers and companies that still make 32 bit applications, I don't see Microsoft discontinuing 32 bit support until much later on, even by Microsoft Standards that would be foolish, at the very least I would expect them to take away 32 bit support and sell it as an additional OS addon in their store. :twisted:

.

Windows is different in the sense that it's used in a lot of business environments if compared to Mac. You have Doctors, retail outlets, etc, that to this day still run 32 bit programs (even IE6 *shudder*)... I used to work at a dentist's office (hired for website work and sometimes helped with some PC related issues while I was in) and some of the software they used dated all the way back to the Windows 3.1 and 95 era. Companies and big businesses will only upgrade and update when they absolutely have to. Why? It costs money to upgrade hardware and software, and if they can pinch a few extra pennies at the cost of a small bit of inefficiency, then why not? It's kind of like getting people who only play MOULa to update their computer to play Obduction, some people aren't going to drop dosh on a new PC setup to play only one game.

Rest assured, as long as enough people and companies need to live in the past we we'll able to keep our 32 bit libraries under Windows. :twisted:

Chuckles58 · **Posted:** Sat Oct 12, 2019 2:14 am

I have a nice, small, and functioning Toshiba laptop from the early 90s, or whenever Windows 3.1 was the latest greatest! Sure, the battery doesn't work, but neither does the battery on my ASUS ROG laptop that I bought in late 2016.

The laptop runs Lotus 1-2-3 (94 version) really well. Writing macros for 1-2-3 was actually pretty easy, being mostly capturing keystrokes. I had a dual boot Windows 7 / Windows XT (for 16 bit programs, mostly the above-mentioned Lotus 1-2-3), but I finally replaced it in 2017 with a very nice W10 desktop.

The best application on the old laptop is "Adventure in Colossal Cave". XYZZY, anybody?

My IT friend from the company I had been with for 20 years gave it to me instead of trashing it.

Oh, and I almost forgot, Tomala, "Banned for shutting down the Slackers forum" :-D

Upcoming Mac OS Catalina and MOULa

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