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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 5:22 pm 
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Well... I think I've gotten pretty darn close to the diagram that the DRC posted to our KIs.

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These drops resulted in a tight ring of warm light that stayed concentrated.

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My recipe is 30, 22, 22. The pellet scores were approximately 356-363.

I'm still trying to tweak the recipe to meet the line right to the mark to match the diagram. Has anyone gotten any closer to matching it? What were your results.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 5:51 pm 
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I hadn't heard that anyone was trying to match the guy in the picture, since he appears to be testing pretty weak pellets.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 6:00 pm 
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The picture shows a level 4 pellet, the weakest of the Orange Glow type. The best are level 6 (60%). The best pellets score between 952 and 1000. The orange glow spreads all the way across the bottom of the tank for those. This is what you need to achieve.

edit: Actually level 6 OG pellets range from 714-1000. The best pellet should score 952 or higher.


Last edited by johnsojc on Wed Aug 15, 2007 6:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 6:30 pm 
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johnsojc wrote:
The picture shows a level 4 pellet, the weakest of the Orange Glow type. The best are level 6 (60%). The best pellets score between 952 and 1000. The orange glow spreads all the way across the bottom of the tank for those. This is what you need to achieve.


No, that's just what we've summized based on the strength of the orange glow. Perhaps those cooking for 60% pellets are over-feeding

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 6:35 pm 
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Ged_UK wrote:
johnsojc wrote:
The picture shows a level 4 pellet, the weakest of the Orange Glow type. The best are level 6 (60%). The best pellets score between 952 and 1000. The orange glow spreads all the way across the bottom of the tank for those. This is what you need to achieve.


No, that's just what we've summized based on the strength of the orange glow. Perhaps those cooking for 60% pellets are over-feeding


That is not what my research shows. All levels of orange and all white pellets (except about 4 up at the high end of the WG range just before the exploders start) add nutrients to the lake. I can find no evidence of a negative effect for these. I do not believe in the so-called "over-feeding" theory. The indication that the nutrients are so quickly consumed when the pellets are dropped leads me to believe that we cannot overfeed. "Bad" pellets seem only to neutralize or break down nutrients already in the lake. Perhaps some algae are destroyed by the concussive effect of the exploders but I do not think the heat of even the most violent sizzler has much effect. Those little buggers are resilient.


Last edited by johnsojc on Wed Aug 15, 2007 6:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 6:39 pm 
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Sorry, but how can there be any evidence either way, when the light level hasn't changed at all? All the research is on the strength of the pellet, there is no data coming out on how that effects the algae, other than this from the DRC

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 6:43 pm 
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Ged_UK wrote:
Sorry, but how can there be any evidence either way, when the light level hasn't changed at all? All the research is on the strength of the pellet, there is no data coming out on how that effects the algae, other than this from the DRC

I do not depend on the DRC to supply me with data. I go dig out my own facts. Since the presense of a localized excess of nutrients in the lake causes the algae to glow and then quickly fades away I am assuming and it is my opinion that there are not enough nutrients in the lake to sustain a higher level of bioluminescence from the algae.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 7:27 pm 
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Anyone trying to match the person in the picture is missing the point of the DRC Announcement.

You should attempt to match the "Best" position on the zoomed and color-coded indicator to the left.

The arrow for "Best" is 68% of the distance from bottom to top.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 7:39 pm 
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Ged_UK wrote:
Sorry, but how can there be any evidence either way, when the light level hasn't changed at all? All the research is on the strength of the pellet, there is no data coming out on how that effects the algae, other than this from the DRC

The worrisome thing is that the DRC doesn't know either! They can obviously measure the inputs based on the meter, but their machine for measuring the outputs (the dock dalek) has never worked. Even worse, if it had worked, Laxman said they didn't know what kind of numbers they would get from it.

This means that the best the DRC can do is assume that the inputs are having the effect that they projected based on their studies. I.e., they are going solely by their theory and not measuring actual performance to see if it matches or misses their projections, so they have no way of knowing if anything is going wrong or of stopping it before it goes too far. If there is one thing I know, it is how wrong a statistical projection can be, even when it is done with all possible accuracy. The moment you get beyond your data your chances of being wrong go way up, and the risk gets higher the further you proceed along the projected curve.

Yet the DRC did not ask us to stop dropping pellets until the machine was repaired. Instead they just crossed their fingers and let us blunder along like a bovine in a porcelain establishment. I wonder how the supporters of the DRC will wish this evidence of irresponsibility away.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 7:50 pm 
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Unfortunately, the tester is very granular. It will only display certain discrete levels... 10%, 20%, 31%, 32% (try to tell those apart, I can't), 40%, 50%, 60%, 70%, 80%, 90% and 100%. There is a well defined range of values that fit in each of these ranges, As I posted earlier, the 60% range includes pellets that score from 714 - 1000 points on your KI. The nutrient value for this range of pellets goes from 150 to 200. The 200 nutrient level corresponds to the 952-1000 KI score pellets. A pellet of with 199 nutrient points has KI scores of 948 to 995. As you can see, the KI score is almost useless for pinpointing the nutrient values since they overlap so much. This is based on a mathematical model of the pellets produced so it is a theory, not fact. The model I use does agree for all data points logged for the 5 weeks of actual pellet drops I have conducted so I have high confidence in my figures.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 8:07 pm 
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johnsojc wrote:
Unfortunately, the tester is very granular.

I suspect that the tester has more resolving power than the meter attached to it can display. The tester is likely sending much more precise information to the Lattice, where Laxman has a program to calculate points and send them back to the KI. This would mean that the DRC has better information on the actual inputs of the project than we are getting from the meter and the points.

(I picture the situation as being something like the GZ. I am certain the coordinates displayed on the KI are not as precise as the actual information being transmitted. The ordinary KI display is not precise enough for serious surveying work, but there may be advanced models that can display the values with the necessary precision.)

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 8:21 pm 
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Yes, that would follow since we get such a wide range of points for the same tester display. I need the decimal points!!! Surely the D'ni didn't do everything using just whole numbers! :shock:

As far as the KI CPS (Cavern Positioning System :D ) goes, the same poor resolution for coordinates can be seen using our terrestrial consumer GPS devices. What is the error on those measured in? Feet? Yards (meters)?


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 10:32 pm 
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johnsojc wrote:
As far as the KI CPS (Cavern Positioning System :D ) goes, the same poor resolution for coordinates can be seen using our terrestrial consumer GPS devices. What is the error on those measured in? Feet? Yards (meters)?


My GPS generally has an error margin of +/- 20 feet.

Not bad when you consider the size of the Earth. :shock:

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 10:49 pm 
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I first thought that the diagram indicated the tester position. But after considering the diagram for awhile I realized that the colors match the color wheel of the ovens. Red at top and bottom, blue above red, and white in the center. I can match the arrow position with the 2 hour recipe achieving an average of 950. Seems to fit the diagram but the tester indicator still reads just above the white line.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 12:02 am 
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I was never able to find any correlation between the colors in the clue and temperature setting indicator wheel on the right side of the oven sliders. My sub 2hr formula for producing (potential) 1000 point pellets (I get one or two 1000 pointers every 25 pellets) involves setting 3 of the ovens to max temperature. The best 3 hour formula might fit the theory but then that involves setting all the sliders to 60% which is exactly what the tester indicates for pellets produced by this setting (and about 250 other pellets of a lower score that you can make). The simple fact is the best scoring pellets are the ones that indicate 60% on the tester which is the first level indicated above the center mark. They produce the bright orange glow that spreads completely across the bottom of the silo.


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