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Do you think the Engine needs a major update or change?
Yes PLEASE! 63%  63%  [ 36 ]
Its Fine how it is/was 37%  37%  [ 21 ]
Total votes : 57
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 5:16 am 
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I know that cyan is tight on money, but if in the future would cyan update or change the engine?
After shutdown i went looking for something else just as good(no luck) as Uru. The i got into Steam,Valve and all of there games. If I were cyan (and i had the money) i would get a license to the Source engine. Good graphics,Amazing physics (as funny as the Uru ones are they really suck) , And great lighting. Sure it would take longer for the game to release but wouldn't it be worth it? But that's just me talking. What do you think?


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 5:27 am 
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I'd love to see the engine get updated, but it doesn't seem plausible or necessary to move the whole thing to Source.

Also... in before the "Second Life" posts happen. :wink:

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 5:58 am 
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I just want the lag fixed :P

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 8:29 am 
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We're going to be getting the source code to the game engine, so we can make any improvements we want, without any cost to Cyan. But to answer the question, yes it definitely needs to be worked on.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 9:45 am 
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I want changes that are needed and fit into the principles that Plasma was created on.

That means not going at everything with a sledge hammer and lusting only after "some kind of change" without looking at the real situation. Rather, we'd fix what's needed (whether this requires a large rewrite or not) and make sure Plasma still keeps its identity though those changes.

After all we're getting the Plasma engine because we want the Plasma engine. If you want another engine you can go use that engine (and beg Cyan to let you use their content in that engine).

So I voted "no" because there is no proper explanation of what these changes might be and why they would be made. Deciding in the poll feels like it's all a matter of a knee-jerk decision.

Ironically, with code, in a lot of cases, the smallest edit can make a very large change. It's not always like: I want to fix a large bug. This is going to take a code-patch the size of the bug.

I think it's rash to have the notion that just because some things in Plasma could work better, the whole thing requires a large rewrite for certain.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 11:16 am 
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@Lontahv:

1) Take and preconcieved ideals about what Plasma is, was, or has ever stood for.
2) Throw them out the window.
3) ???
4) Success! (for those who know the meme, it would normally be "Profit!" here, but, i didn't think people would get the reference.

In other words.. this is in the hands of the individual coders, now. You may be one of the coders. I don't really care. There may be others who take Plasma, and take it in completely different directions. That's their own choice, and you can't control that.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 11:17 am 
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Yes and no. We don't need to change too much of it - but there are some areas that need aa serious overhaul.

I'm sure the GoW will make the necessary modifications in time - without altering it too drastically. ;)

TG

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 11:31 am 
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This is bigger than the GoW, now... Much bigger.

I for one, want to see Uru brought up to date... HDR, etc. Lot of unpaid work would be involved, but, hey, this is an open source project, or will be.

There's every chance that Uru, could be made more.. beautiful, more realistic, and more immersive.

I'm usually the first to say "graphics are not everything". And they're not.

Uru has the story, it works, and its a well written background.

We need to fill in the other sides of immersion..

-Interface:
The KI needs work, that's for sure. The Nexus needs work, as well.

-Graphics/3d Environments:
I hate to say it.. but these need work, too. Its 2009, now. When were the ages developed? At least the core ones? (and, thus, the others were designed to mesh with them..) If I remember correctly, wasn't it around 2003? or was it 2002? I know that Uru in its various forms.. DIRT, MUDPIE, etc... hasn't it been nearly a decade since work started? (if not longer?)

Time to update, and enhance. I'm not saying changing the ages, as in, moving things around, changing the story, the journey.. I'm talking bringing this environment into the modern world...

EDIT: Just a note: I am aware that not all of the above are engine changes, some engines changes may be neccessary for HDR, and better optimisation, etc.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 11:48 am 
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*dream*

Less lag. More population capability in servers.

Better texture sharpness and better shadows (MUCH better, that is. Make the game look up to date and above that).

Few textures changes- only when it's ugly (Really few. Like in eder gira. The rock texture seems all smeared on the rocks. It could be changed so it would fit better).

"Pull it!" system for levers and such. Like the one in myst v. It's really cool!

Sun light effect (when looking at the sun, the screen turns bright and you see those light circles and everything).

Reflection everywhere it's needed (like the one you see in the cleft's pool and k'veer window hall floor- MOUL version. It should be anywhere a reflection is still the old weird ABM reflection, like the floor under the clock in the 'hood, or the floor of the last rezeero room).

Ability to move the camera around when in 3rd person. Instead of the useless thing that happens when holding the right mouse button and moving the mouse today, this will now move the camera all around you, so you can see you face! of course, it is possible only at 3rd person, and in the special views (where you normally see your face) it will be a bit different (limited, I guess).

Motion effect. The screen becomes all blurry when moving the camera. I 2st person, it will be active when looking around quickly. In 3rd person- when moving the camera around quickly (see above).

Make our characters more realistic! being a myst game, I think people should look as real as possible. This can be done with a few things, which are REALLY needed:

1) real moving hair. And clothes.

2) about 5 different walking and running styles. Everytime you walk, a different style will be randomly activated. This will make your character much more radom and real.

3) every action the avatar makes should be done by real person. I mean, you know. Like putting this "catch the movement and put it in the computer" cloth, and than putting the movement into the avatar in the game. Big, very big, but worth it.

4) special run-stop, not simply stopping. Don't know why it's really needed, but GTA IV has one, and it's really cool.

5) More real-life looking textures! real-life skin textures! real-life clothing textures!

6) "the moving mouth". Everytime you send a message (in the regular chat. Not PM), your moth will move for like 3-5 seconds. So it will look like you are talking.

7) talking sounds! when there's a constant stream of like 10 messages in 5 seconds, you hear "blah blah blah" crowd noise. There should be 2 kinds- one is with less crowd (many messages stream) and one with more crowd (many many many messages stream).

8) noise at some emotes. Sound of clapping in the /clap emote. Such things (no mouth noise though).

Here's something that isn't really needed, but hey, it's cool: wind moving clothes and hair. It will be hard to put it everywhere it's needed, but with real moving clothes and hair it can be really cool. Your clothes and hair -if you have a long one- move where there is wind, according to how strong the wind is.

And here's something which only cyan worlds can do: real faces in the played NPCs ("official" played characters like victor, kodama and the others). We already got it with people like Rand or Dr.Watson. It will be cool to see that with others. The un-played NPCs (zandi and yeesha) also get their own movement (like what we do with the walking and running for avatars, but one for the whole scene) and they get their own speaking face (like the face of played NPCs, but it's moving and all. As in myst v).

I suppose non of these will be done in the real thing, but that's what I always wanted, if it may be possible one day.

EDIT: I'm not talking about KI changes or such. These are needed- but this is more content than technical stuff.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 12:21 pm 
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Changing the Uru engine ? Cyan just did that for crying out loud!

I see no problems with physX. the only thing that might need some doing is a bit of optimisation to help graphic lag.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 12:36 pm 
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Well, as Rand himself said, this game is story first. They've got the story. The engine should fit around the story, not the other way around. There were plenty of holes in Uru - for example, it was too easy to fall through the floor in some places in Ae'gura (although it was fun to exploit them, for the Skydivers!). Also, the waterfall effects in Gahreesen leave much to be desired.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 12:48 pm 
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EowynCarter wrote:
Changing the Uru engine ? Cyan just did that for crying out loud!

I see no problems with physX. the only thing that might need some doing is a bit of optimisation to help graphic lag.


PhysX has nothing to do with graphics; Plasma does, and Cyan hasn't made major architectural changes to Plasma in the graphics area since 2.0 between realMyst and Uru (they've updated it, but not in radical ways).

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 1:14 pm 
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A lot of these dreams have nothing to do with the engine. It's the content at fault... we can't code out way out of that. :P

Making the engine more modern is what I consider a needed change. :lol:

Adding stuff that goes against the Plasma way of adding stuff... that'd be a dirty hack and would be liable to blow up in your face.

Cyan has done some hackky stuff over the years (take hardcoding a panic link to go to an place named "Personal" and hardcoding avatar models) and it actually has been limiting and bad.

Plasma is all about not hardcoding stuff (actually, come to think of it most good code is). Plasma was built on the "eat your good OOP" and "it's all in the data; the sky's the limit" principles. This is what makes Plasma special to me. This is what makes Plasma special compared to the rest of the engines in the game-engine rat-race. Instead of sitting down with your IDE to make something new you sit down with your 3d-modeler and start building.

I think a lot of programmers don't understand that someone has to make the content. It's better if a 3d-artist can have the power to make an engine do amazing things without having to touch a single line of code (because art and code don't always mix).

Plasma's "way" allows for fairly easy addition of new features and effects. It might actually be easier to get something new working if you don't decide to stab the system in the back before even trying it.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 2:54 pm 
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Yes changes. Not just for what lag/whatever you call it, but also for other things like better light rendering and a whole host of other things that people might find that could use work. :D

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 3:35 pm 
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I think it could benefit from some updating sure.

@TS

The smearing of textures doesn't mean it needs a new texture, it is a result of how the texture is applied to the mesh.

Also a realistically moving hair and clothing would probably go a long way to increase lag, I would like to see a bit less rigid movement though, I guess it depends on the amount it moves, GW and WoW have moving clothing elements (like cloaks and tabards, WoW does hair to a degree too).


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