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 Post subject: MMW Part 3: KI
PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 6:26 pm 
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Some people like the KI some people hate it (I generally lean towards the former). One thing we all can agree upon is that it is a necessity. So here is your chance to sound out I will be adding two lists to this Part of MOULa's Most Wanted. One stating improvements to the KI and and second list new contenders to replace it.

KI Upgrades:
1.A working flashlight...

2. More memory...

3. A way to add your own sorting categories..

4. A way to change your KI's color..

5. The coordinates to be in the upper right, even though the main ki window is closed.

6. A better indicator. Instead of your ki just.. flashing.. it shows why its flashing, like.. a picture icon for new picture, or something like that

7. The ability to be alerted when buddies or neighbors sign in..

8. A clear button, for the recent players list in the KI (or auto clears)

9. A way to manage all the content in your imager, by being able to delete, move, and stuff. Like a way to use it as a storage device, too.

10. A link to the Nexus

11. A tab system (As designed by Bellerophon)

12. StarLion's interface upgrade located here: http://mystonline.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=7947

KI Replacements
1.

Let the battle begin!

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Last edited by jadawin12 on Wed Apr 14, 2010 5:55 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 10:56 pm 
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A working flashlight...

More memory...

A way to add your own sorting categories..

A way to change your KI's color..

The coordinates to be in the upper right, even though the main ki window is closed.

A better indicator. Instead of your ki just.. flashing.. it shows why its flashing, like.. a picture icon for new picture, or something like that

The ability to be alerted when buddies or neighbors sign in..

A quick link to nexus would be nice.. But i guess that would change the game's central location, which i don't think cyan would want to do..

A clear button, for the recent players list in the KI (or auto clears)

A way to manage all the content in your imager, by being able to delete, move, and stuff. Like a way to use it as a storage device, too.

hmmmm... i think thats all on my list.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:05 pm 
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Excellent, I'll put it up! ... except for the Nexus thing, it would be useful but it is a bit too far out of canon for me. But if there is some arguments I'll put up a poll.

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Thelonius "Prof" Higginsbottom

member of the Guild of Calamitous Intent

"I invented the term the Bevin Generation do I get a spot in Mystlore?"


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:26 pm 
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Posts: 130
I want all of the KI functions reduced to an API and the entire GUI redone with Lua.

That way, users can make as many changes as they want to the KI. Colors can be re-designed, functions can be added, fonts and graphics can be changed on a per user basis. I'd expect that a skilled member of the community would quickly emerge as the preeminent designer with the most used interface, and then Cyan could adopt that.

LUA scripting is a free license (MIT) and easy to learn.

API's to open, only in-game. (Can't be programmed into outside software.)

Chat
Audio chat
Ki-Mail
Photos
Journal
Markers (Gathering and creating)
KI GPS
D'ni / Cavern Time
Friends List / Ignore List
Pellet count
Jalak controls

Scripters can add their own functions on top of Cyan's, like timezone clocks, timers or alarms, audio recording, games, text editing, e-mail checking, volume controls, Teamspeak controls, Maps, text macros, Calenders, MP3 player, etc...

Cyan has to keep control of some of this. Still no uploading of images/photos to Cyan's servers, but a lot of the rest of it can and should be opened. I also don't want movement to be allowed from Macros.

I'm imagining twitter feeds, RSS scrolls from news websites, Facebook updates, weather forecasting, music playlists and controls.
Code:
Facebook Status Update:
Calmiche is exploring Er'cana! (Attach Ki photo).


Edit: Just whipped this up (Very rough) to show part of what I want as a KI user interface.


[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]


Last edited by Calmiche on Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:12 am 
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jadawin12 wrote:
Excellent, I'll put it up! ... except for the Nexus thing, it would be useful but it is a bit too far out of canon for me. But if there is some arguments I'll put up a poll.


I can see the advantage to this, particularly if we eventually go with the two-journey model described by Tweek here, with the KI substituting for a Relto book.

Depending on how much of the actions of the ResEngs you want to assume is in-character, we've already seen that some of the advanced KIs have the ability to link one user directly to another's location. Note that the KI isn't strapped around the wrist, but around the hand, right where the palm of the hand might touch a linking panel. Perhaps an enhanced version of the KI would have sufficient "user permissions" to allow the owner to link directly to the Nexus.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 2:22 am 
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Why do people want a flashlight on the Ki? That ruins several existing puzzles (Eder Gira?) and eliminates the potential for any future "too dark, find the light" puzzles.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 2:42 am 
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Eat_My_Shortz wrote:
Why do people want a flashlight on the Ki? That ruins several existing puzzles (Eder Gira?) and eliminates the potential for any future "too dark, find the light" puzzles.


You can easily disable the flashlight for those puzzles via code... and because there are SOME parts of the world we want to explore, but are too dark.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 2:52 am 
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jadawin12 wrote:
Excellent, I'll put it up! ... except for the Nexus thing, it would be useful but it is a bit too far out of canon for me. But if there is some arguments I'll put up a poll.


I'm of the opinion that the best idea would just be to have an already-open Nexus book on a pedestal or on the Other Shelf in the hut in relto so you can just click and link straight away as soon as Relto loads. Even better if you can jimmy it so so that loading Relto loads Nexus too so we don't have to wait through a second loading screen (either by explicitly modifying the loading code or putting the Nexus in Relto behind the background and having the linking book just move you), but that might be a bit fiddly to do.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 3:15 am 
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And as for the Ki...

I'm of the opinion that the layout/user interface needs to be totally pulled out and done away with. There's too much confusion and it's horribly designed as a result of just being built up over time with too much functionality crammed onto the one layout.

I think a transition to a tabbed display would be the best thing to do here, with a tab for each different function of the Ki. This would let the actual management panes be much simpler, and have the versatility to add new functionality easily in future without having to figure out how to cram it in with whatever's already in there.

Here's a mockup I made to illustrate (obviously in the final the art would be based off existing art, but I'm not that good)

Image
Click for big.

That's meant to be me in a friend's Kadish, editing my Ahnonay Cathedral invite list. Tabs along the bottom are

  • Chat - lets you change your chat target without minimising the ki, perhaps has a larger chat window and maybe if there's logging lets you access that.
  • Mailbox - Inbox, compose, sent. Basic mail communications, you know the deal.
  • People - a place to edit your buddy list and ignore list, to start with.
  • Ages - Edit stuff to do with each age: journal (default on popup) and invite list)
  • Device - Only enabled when you approach a device. A custom interface for each one. Image management for the imager, maybe a more comprehensive Jalak setup when you're in there, something else for new devices, etc
  • Records - Pellets, ID, playtime, time spent in ages, etcetera
  • Markers - an interface letting you properly browse and manage marker games
  • Settings - figure this out for yourself

    It wouldn't be too far out - the design would be fairly similar across most screens (list on left, main content pane on right). Wouldn't involve a total recode - it's envisioned as only ever needing single clicks, no 'fancy' things like popup windows or dragging, so existing codebase could be used.

    Say if I were to click 'add new' there, then the list of people would change, say, first to 'Buddies, Neighbours, Age Players, Recent, Other' and you'd click one of those categories, which would then give you a list to click on someone in or cancel. Other would let you type in a name.

    Anyways, there's my proposal.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 3:30 am 
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Wow, great work Bellerophon. I still don't think we need that many tabs. For instance:
- "Records" can, for now, be put on the main screen somewhere (just needs to show your Ki ID and pellets).
- "Device" can be considered just another user (like it is now -- just send this "user" text and images).
- "Markers" can appear within each age. So where you now have "Journal" and "Invites", you have "Markers" as well, showing the marker quests for that Age.
- I'm not sure what "Chat" is supposed to be for, given that you already can chat at the top.
But looks very stunning!

Just to make sure people have seen this: The Ki source code is now available! So apparently we can start hacking this thing.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 3:43 am 
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Eat_My_Shortz wrote:
Wow, great work Bellerophon. I still don't think we need that many tabs. For instance:
- "Records" can, for now, be put on the main screen somewhere (just needs to show your Ki ID and pellets).


Pft, I'm sure there's more information than that about me stored on the Uru Servers, why not take advantage of this to show it? Journeys completed, Time played... there's all sorts of stats that I'm sure you could put on there. Besides, it gives us somewhere to put things like pellets if they add another thing like that in future without clogging up the top-right.


Quote:
- "Device" can be considered just another user (like it is now -- just send this "user" text and images).


You're assuming we only ever communicate with Imagers. Jalak was one example, and other devices with settings are something that people could add to the game as it goes OS. Plus it's totally unintuitive to go into your compose mail screen to transfer an image, expecting there to be a new user there.

Quote:
- "Markers" can appear within each age. So where you now have "Journal" and "Invites", you have "Markers" as well, showing the marker quests for that Age.


Mmmaybe. With the own screen you'd have space to eventually add a game browser and such, but I see your point. Plus you can always add a tab.

Quote:
- I'm not sure what "Chat" is supposed to be for, given that you already can chat at the top.


Can't change the chat target in this design without either minimising or having a chat tab, and I don't really want to squash it and add the visual confusion of an always-present user list or force the user to minimise the Ki. Also there could be buttons for /startlog and /stoplog and the possibility of adding a viewing pane for the saved logs.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 3:46 am 
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Bellerophon wrote:
Can't change the chat target in this design without either minimising or having a chat tab, and I don't really want to squash it and add the visual confusion of an always-present user list or force the user to minimise the Ki. Also there could be buttons for /startlog and /stoplog and the possibility of adding a viewing pane for the saved logs.

True. OK.

Well, one issue is you've removed the always-present user list (which you see in the half-open Ki view) from the full Ki view. Is it confusing that the full Ki view is not a superset of the half-open Ki view? Otherwise, I think that's fine.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 3:57 am 
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Calmiche wrote:
I want all of the KI functions reduced to an API and the entire GUI redone with Lua.

That way, users can make as many changes as they want to the KI. Colors can be re-designed, functions can be added, fonts and graphics can be changed on a per user basis. I'd expect that a skilled member of the community would quickly emerge as the preeminent designer with the most used interface, and then Cyan could adopt that.

Why Lua? (Yes, I know, it's used in World of Warcraft).

All of the above is true of Python as well. Python has the notable advantage of already being completely integrated with Uru, and everything you ask for already being available within the Uru engine (and the source was just released -- see my above comment).

Quote:
LUA scripting is a free license (MIT) and easy to learn.

Python is also a free license (Python Software Foundation license) and is arguably much easier to learn than Lua.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 4:08 am 
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Eat_My_Shortz wrote:
Why Lua? (Yes, I know, it's used in World of Warcraft).


A couple different reasons.

LUA is a lighter install. (About 1/8th of the memory used.)
It's quite a bit faster.
The syntax is simpler than Python.
Multiple threading. (You can run multiple LUA mods at the same time. Python makes this more difficult.)

Python is more powerful, but LUA is simpler to learn.

And of course, to me, the most important reason is that I'm more conformable with LUA.

Honestly, I don't have a preference. If it's easier for Cyan to do in Python, that works. It's just if we're going open source, we might as well make it as easy as possible on newbies.


Last edited by Calmiche on Wed Apr 14, 2010 4:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 4:14 am 
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Obligatory link to StarLion's "Interface Overhaul" thread, because a tremendous amount of thought and discussion has already gone into it and I wish that it not be lost to obscurity:

http://mystonline.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=7947

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